650b to replace 650a on old Raleigh
 

Hi all,

I have an old Raleigh 3spd bicycle with 26 x 1 3/8" wheels, also known as 650A. I'm in Canada. Tire options for these rims are dismal, and the options available for aluminum rims is even worse. I'm considering getting some 27.5" (650b) wheels and lacing them up for use in my 3 speed. I know that the purists among this group may scoff at such an idea, but I'd like to know what options i might have to keep my existing rim size, but modernize it. What options exist now for 650A rims and tires? 2nd question: What are some recommended 650b tires for comfort/road use?

Thanks in advance for any help,
Ivan

650A actually isn't terrible. Schwalbe makes a couple decent tires. The Delta Cruiser is a good choice for an all-around tire. Panaracer also makes the excellent Col de la Vie tires, which are very plush. If you like a little sportier tire, the Michelin World Tour is a good choice and very traditional looking. Then there's the so-so Kendas, and the economy-grade Duros. I like the Michelins, Schwalbes, and Panaracers among those sets. The Kendas are OK in a pinch. I have not had luck with the Duros lasting more than a couple seasons.

For 650A rims, the go-to replacements were the Sun CR-18 rims. They've dried up since COVID hit. Wheelmaster makes a steel replacement, but I have not been too impressed with those. My go-to rims in this size are old stock steels from Raleigh or Dunlop. But then again I don't mind riding steel rims at all.

If you think 650A is bad, 650 is even worse (26 x 1-1/4 club or 26 S5/S6 Schwinn). We're down to just the Kendas in that size. I wish MIchelin made a World Tour tire in that size as well.

I was wondering what happened to the CR18 rims, I can't seem to find much of anything online. I'm not keen on buying new if they aren't aluminum, so that rules out the wheelmaster rims.

Let's say I do go for the 650b route...is there much of a market for selling my decent Raleigh 650A rims?

Thanks, Ivan

It depends on the rims you have. There's a market for pristine Westrick chrome rims, for good stainless Westrick rims (like were used in the 1950s), and for the higher-end rims like the Dunlop Special Lightweight endrick. There's not much of a market if they're really worn, or are rusty, dented, or damaged. In average condition, the common Westrick and common endrick rims are worth a little money, but not a lot.

One other option which is allegedly still made, but which I cannot find much about, are the Araya SP-30 650A rims. They're an alloy rim with a little more of an endrick profile compared to the CR-18. They seem to have very limited availability though, at least in the US.

I think it’s a fine idea to go to the 650b route. You’ll need an additional 3mm in brake reach, but that’s not much, plus you’ll likely be able to fit a wider tire. Lots and lots of tire options exist, from 32mm to really, really wide if you include those marked 27.5” (which is also 584mm). Now finding non-disc rims in that size is getting increasingly difficult, and a 40-hole rear for a 40-hole internal gear hub is just about impossible.

I'm with [MENTION=38859]SirMike1983[/MENTION] there are good options out there for 26" x 1-3/8" but you won't find them in Canadian Tire. You are going to have to use the internet. Schwalbe makes some nice ones including Delta Cruisers in traditional black or creme. It is still a good size and you won't have issues with clearances. If the rims that you have are good, sticking to 26" x 1-3/8" would also an economic option since you have he wheels already.

One other note, the Kenda's and Sunlites are probably just as good as the old Dunlop tires in the '60's and '70's. If you end up with Kenda K40's, they are not terrible and the price isn't too bad either. I have two bikes with similar Kenda K35's and they are fine. The Panaracers and Schwalbe would be a noticeable improvement over those Dunlop, Kenda and Sunlite tires.

Don't be swayed by the bicycle world's fashionistas telling you you need 650B. Raleigh, about fifty English bike manufacturers, Dutch bike manufactures and Japanese bike manufacturers knew this was a good tire size. That hasn't changed.

Edit: Add Schwinn, CCM, Murray, Columbia and pretty much all bike makers in the '50's,'60"s and '70's.

I'm not trying to buy into any fashion styles or anything, just trying to evaluate my options. I think the 27.5" market is exploding a bit, with lots of MTB options available, with rim widths that land nicely in a comfort road bike category. I find that as soon as bike sizes/styles go mainstream, then even the used market has lots of stuff.

To that end, I'm looking at a pair of used 27.5" rims, rim brake compatible, complete with tires tonight. The price ($30 for the set) can't be beat, but I have to check on spoke count and general condition to ensure that I can use them for my application. If I do get these, I still need some more road-suitable tires....haha. :)

Thanks again for everyone chiming in so far, I'll keep you updated on my decision.

Love the World Tours...the gum walls used to be a darker brown and look sharp as well as riding well.

Tell me which MBA at Sun to slap some sense into. I have about four sets of wheels that I need to build and it's almost impossible to find suitable rims.

It would be nice to have at least one reliable source of 650A rims, other than vintage old stock stuff. The CR18 was a decent rim. The Araya endrick looks good as well, but good luck finding either one in the US these days...

Looks like Alex Cycles in Japan has the 36-hole Araya 590mm rim in stock:

https://alexscycle.com/collections/r...1-3-8-wo-36h-1

Only $20 per rim, but I'd imagine shipping to the US will take a bite.

Edit: Put a pair in the cart to calculate shipping: $56! So $94 total for a pair.

Try Carson City Bike Shop for CR-18 rims. Their website is clunky and frustratingly hard to navigate and the 'search' function stinks- it's better to give them a call. Their prices are good, and usually the shipping is good, too. I've bought Sun rims from them in the past couple years.

My Gazelle tandem came with 26 x 1 3/8 37-590mm wheels and when I built new wheels for it I went with 27.5 inch/650B (ETRTO 584mm). Works perfectly fine.
One upside is going to a slightly smaller size is that you might be able to fit a slightly larger tyre?

Though I am assuming you have rim brakes?

EDIT: As for tyres in 26x1 3/8, I can find at least 19 models for sale in both black, whitewall and cream.
EDIT2: And about 3 models for rims in both silver and black.

http://i.imgur.com/A5DZrhCh.jpg
650A wheels

http://i.imgur.com/v0FqbBUh.jpg
New 650B wheels

That's interesting - they must have a couple different models in 650A. The #30 ones were endrick type rims but I've never seen them for sale in the US. Those you found look a little like a westrick rim (a nice touch), and at least can be bought from Japan. The shipping stinks, but they're probably pretty good rims if they're like the other stuff Araya makes.

Velocity offers a few of their rim-brake 650B rims in 32- and 40-hole drilling. That’s the route I’d go if I wanted to put aluminum rims on a 3-speed (while keeping the original hubs) today. Nothing to do with fashion, it’s just what is doable when the CR18 is AWOL in 650A form, and other aluminum 650A rims are only available in 36-hole.

A quick Google search shows those Velocity rims at about $100 each. Not a huge surprise given the price of everything these days, but you'd have to really love that old three speed to make that investment!

For sure!

I'm really bummed about the CR18. They were inexpensive, easy to lace up to the old Raleigh hubs using the old spokes, and still a big weight savings from the steel rims. A year or two ago, I might have chalked up the shortage to the pandemic, but by this point I'm thinking Sun culled a few of their offerings... :(

For lack of a Bible I would swear over their atlas rims. Or the dyads if 700c

Hmm, for the folks north of the border: https://www.velozophie.ca/us/jante-s...ml?id=60144355

[MENTION=367685]iblackford[/MENTION] check the spoke count before you buy those rims and compare them your Raleigh. Raleigh 3 speeds are usually 40 on the Sturmey Archer hub and 32 on the front hub. Nowadays, we tend to see both the front and rear with the same spoke count. Again, I think Raleigh had something with more spokes in the rear.

We have gone a bit off topic on the availability of 650a rims, which is why I think there should be a English style three speed section on BikeForums. Anyway SJS Cycles has some options for 650a rims, but not CR-18's. And shipping will make these more expensive. Yes, you are going to have to really want those rims. I got the Sun CR-18 just before the pandemic. I got lucky.

SJS Cycles 650a rims

I could have sworn that they had those SJSC rims in 32 hole in stock a few moments ago. Maybe I wasn't looking carefully enough. They look like a private labeled Alex rim to me. That is ok. They are still better than rusty steel.

I have 2 sets of CR-18 650A rims and really like them. Too bad they are currently unavailable--how hard can it be to pop out a few more when they already have all the tooling set up? The same goes for the CR-18 in 650B. I heard their initial run of 650B's was a tad too big, and for that reason they stopped making them, but how hard can it be to correct that? I would love to find a vintage-compatible, quality, reasonably-priced 650B rim and I bet a lot of other people would too. Sun seems to be missing a business opportunity with both of these sizes. On the other hand, the Araya 650A's look very nice, and $93/pair shipped seems within reasonable limits. The nice 650B rims cost that much, or more, apiece.

Agree 100%- I’d certainly be a customer for polished CR18 rims in 650B…

I can't find a good link now, but there was a Canadian site that claimed to have ordered a run of 650B CR18s that had an improved tire fit. Sun uses the same extrusion for any CR18 rim, so it must just be a matter of convincing them to roll it and drill it to your specs by placing a big enough order...

The CR-18 650A rims are available (e.g., https://carsoncitybikeshop.com/rim-s...18-36-sl-nmsw/), but just in 36-hole and not in the polished finish. That's not very useful when trying to move from 40/32 steel rims to aluminum.

I, unfortunately, had a set of those initial "650B" CR-18 rims (quote marks because they were about two mm too large). Most difficult rim I've ever mounted a tire on.