Saddle Angle
 

Quick read on GCN: Saddle angle - have we got it all wrong?
https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com...e-got-it-wrong

Even a small bit of down angle is uncomfortable for me. I find level is the best and maybe a touch up angle. Writers conclusion seems incomplete because he doesn't mention saddle/bars relative position. But I guess he is writing for a certain type of rider: one who likes to ride up hills. One of which I am not. This makes sense: I like my saddle slightly up-angle because my favorite riding position is coasting downhill.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aa453fdb4b.jpg

I have to admit that at age 70 I now tilt my saddle down about 3°.

It think it is mighty stupid to try to argue that there is one particular saddle angle that is ideal for every saddle, every geometry, every riding style, and everybody.

From the article:That is just plain weird.

Lugano Charter is the stupidest thing ever. Graham Obree really pissed them off.

Most people don't compete in UCI events, so don't worry about following stupid UCI rules. GCN thinks everyone races UCI events and everyone needs to follow UCI rules.

It's not surprising so may pro riders are tilting the saddle down as sheesh, look at the height differential from bar to saddle on Froome's bike, it's massive. If the saddle was pointed up it would be painful, as it is for anyone when the tilt is too high. The super low bar thing is just the latest trend of pro cycling where aerodynamics is now their version of the "new/latest frontier" that they can sell to the public..... hah hah .

The criticisms above were addressed in the video, which I thought was well balanced. Forgot the name of the gentleman who does the fitting but he also qualified uphill, downhill and dependencies on cockpit location.
Also looked at the video on fore/aft placement. Going to experiment some more based on the new info. My bars tend to be low, even at 73.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6792a632_h.jpg2022-12-07_04-22-24 on Flickr

That doesn't look low to me, just the standard 1~2 inches below saddle height which is the norm for a road bike setup. This is how the cool kids are riding nowadays:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...afc83589ad.jpg
Personally I like my touring bike with the saddle level and my road bike the same as yours.

Completely off-topic, but that bike is flippin' gorgeous. I like the red tape, cable housing, and straps with the red frame graphics.

This is already settled. See Rule #48.

The fallout from this should be good:

GCN: "Tilt your saddle down for more power!"

New BF posters: "I adjusted my saddle by watching an Internet video. Why do my hands hurt so much?"

GCN and just about everyone else that intends to make money off cyclists, have "to think things up" if they want to survive. If the idea to tilt the saddle, up or down, didn't come organically and without prompting, it's probably best to leave it be.

I ride old school leather saddles tilted upwards a bit at the nose. They're very comfortable like that. I find anything flat or forward-tilting just causes me to slide forward off the nose.

The best saddle tilt for a given rider? Start with the nose and back level. Ride it. There's a fair to middlin' chance that level will feel great to you. If not, adjust it nose-up or nose-down, depending on how your butt and naughty bits (and hands) feel, a very little bit. Try again. Rinse and repeat until you like the result. The vast majority of us will end up with the nose level or a very few degrees off of level.

It isn't complicated. It may be mildly annoying dialing it in, but it isn't complicated.

the UCI protects the basic bike form.
actually the scantlings now change pretty fast compared to yesteryear.
recall the banning of saddles with the “peacock” tail?
last I reviewed it was 2.5 degrees plus or minus.

most often here for a drop bar bike, a severely downslope saddle is masking some other bike fit problem.
a saddle with springs could be argued should tilt down as when it is loaded, the saddle levels out

when I see saddles tilting up 5-10 degrees, I think gelding.

This. They would say or do anything to make a video. In a year new research will show the opposite. And it was such a huge study , a whole 14 riders in one instance.
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My saddles are all a little nose down. Actual setting comes after riding with the wrenches and tweaking until it disappears. For me, no plastic saddle has never achieved "disappearing" set level. (Leather saddles are for me a near torture when I pull forward onto the hard leather on steel nose. And as an ex-racer who loved and still does using the entire saddle, that simply does not work.

Went for a 44 mile ride yesterday on an early '80s race bike with a hard Specialized race saddle aimed slightly down. This post is the first time I thought about the saddle at all.

A Campagnolo seat post was among the very first upgrades I made to my bike way back when. It was so important to get the fit right and the notched saddle clamps could never get me there (and keep me there).

It is a bit odd because they were expensive but once set, you could forget about them,... forever. I haven't adjusted mine in 50 years.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e0ada8cbda.jpg

I mostly had my saddles level and that worked, whether it was a Brooks Professional or UnicaNitor saddle. Last year I built a Motobecane and topped it of with a nice B17 Brooks saddle. I knew , because the saddle was new , that it was going to be some time before it was comfy. I ran the bike up and down canyons and flat ground from 25 - 40 miles at a time. A month later it was better , but not like my Brooks Pro or UnicaNitor saddles. I thought that maybe a slight tilt back would either make it better , or worse. I tilted it and off I went a nice long bike ride . I stopped at 30 miles and got off the bike , stretched , and back on the bike. When I got home , I was surprised at the difference just a little adjustment made.I then started with my Raleigh Pro with the Brooks Professional and one by one tried the same thing on the rest of my fleet.....WOW! After 50 years of riding regularly , I found something that makes these saddles more comfy , even my Cinelli #3. It pays to do micro adjustments which the early Campagnolo seat posts , as well as others , allows for. It really is worth the effort. If in doubt , take a wrench with you on the ride . Joe

Bad Lag.... That is a beauty, and topped off with one of my favorite saddles! That bike HAS to be comfy!!!

That right there ^. I only use Campg Record posts without any kind of teeth. The sweet spot for me is always in between the teeth.

Which seatposts have good tilt adjustability?

EXACTLY!

I was always amazed at how the teeth were always exactly wrong.

To me its not so much the degree of up or down tilt but the way it influences your hip angle (along with other factors). I am a forward rotated pelvis type rider. Because of this any upward tilt closes my hips and makes pedaling with any power uncomfortable. Even keeping it level on certain saddles gives me numbnuts. I also think it depends on where you tend to sit on the saddle. I have found that saddles with a dip to hold you in place coupled with a slight downward angle gives me a comfortable riding position with less of the issue of sliding forward or too much weight on my hands. On bikes like my Zunow with quite steep seat angles I give a bit more tilt downard since I ride these all out mostly. On my Colnago which I ride more balanced I keep closer to level. I can see a leather saddle giving the same effect when titled slightly upward after the break-in period where it develops a similar "hammock" shape to hold you in place. There is this guy Phil Burt who did some work for UK track team who wrote a book called Bike Fit which seems to work well enough. Some of the recommendations are for performance but he does fit for comfort as well. Him or someone like James from Francis Cade's channel have been good for me.

Any post that has two bolts, arrayed front-to-back, clamping the rails will have every fine tilt adjustment, There are quite a few out there meeting that description, but they typically have zero to very small rear setback. I need lots of saddle clamp setback so these are what I’ve appreciated:

I love my early-version of the VO Long Setback post (can’t see the bolts here but they’re both behind the post tube, straddling the rail camp pivot)
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...-ccH822H-L.jpg

Before that, I appreciated American Classic posts that use a large clamping bolt, ahead of a smaller tilt limiter set screw. That set screw is clear in this shot:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...-kNnkdz5-L.jpgP