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Has demand dropped?

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Has demand dropped?

Old 12-17-23, 08:14 PM
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Old 12-17-23, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AdventureManCO
I was talking about E-bikes w/ a co-worker buddy, not in a bad way. Just talking. They mentioned that they recently talked to their homeowners insurance who specifically asked if there were any E-bikes in the dwelling (house/garage). When asking why, it's because coverage would be lost if the E-bike battery was the cause of a fire. Meaning...if a house burnt down, and in the insurance investigation it was found that the fire originated at the battery for the bike...zero coverage.

I don't know if this is par for the course w/ homeowner insurance nowadays, but something I had not ever thought of. My recommendation is if you have or are looking at an E-bike, best to call your insurance company to get their position and understand the fine print on this issue right now.


This is just the beginning, all the big insurance companies are running screaming from risk, California is only a start.

They fully understand the magnitude of the Ef-batt danger so far and want nothing to do with it.

I know of Industrial applications where they are at Defcon level prep, the big ones will drop 10 plus stories down into a concrete bunker followed by hundreds of tons of more concrete and nuke level Fire foam while they pray the fire goes out, hopefully limiting the loss to a Billion $$$$$$ if they are lucky.

At a certain point they are virtually impossible to extinguish and that point can be very early on.

You can be sure that they will hang you out to dry/fry without a second thought, nevermind come after you if they can dig up any liability on your part.
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Old 12-17-23, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac


This is just the beginning, all the big insurance companies are running screaming from risk, California is only a start.

They fully understand the magnitude of the Ef-batt danger so far and want nothing to do with it.

I know of Industrial applications where they are at Defcon level prep, the big ones will drop 10 plus stories down into a concrete bunker followed by hundreds of tons of more concrete and nuke level Fire foam while they pray the fire goes out, hopefully limiting the loss to a Billion $$$$$$ if they are lucky.

At a certain point they are virtually impossible to extinguish and that point can be very early on.

You can be sure that they will hang you out to dry/fry without a second thought, nevermind come after you if they can dig up any liability on your part.
Presently my garage has the following lithium battery devices; lawnmower, weed eater, hand drills, various power tools, back up booster for car starting, trouble light and the mother of all batteries a Tesla but heaven forbid there is a bike in there, my insurance is canceled. Nothing but a urban myth! But it does support the anti ebike narrative which is all that this thread has become. Does anyone really believe the reason the C&V market has collapsed is because of ebikes? That’s delusional. It’s purely demographics, those who fondly recall bikes of the 70’s and 80’s are aging out of the sport and have amassed all the bikes they desire or have place to store.
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Old 12-17-23, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac


This is just the beginning, all the big insurance companies are running screaming from risk, California is only a start.

They fully understand the magnitude of the Ef-batt danger so far and want nothing to do with it.

I know of Industrial applications where they are at Defcon level prep, the big ones will drop 10 plus stories down into a concrete bunker followed by hundreds of tons of more concrete and nuke level Fire foam while they pray the fire goes out, hopefully limiting the loss to a Billion $$$$$$ if they are lucky.

At a certain point they are virtually impossible to extinguish and that point can be very early on.

You can be sure that they will hang you out to dry/fry without a second thought, nevermind come after you if they can dig up any liability on your part.
a bit of fearmongering there. the fact is that there are vanishingly few - if any - eBike fires where the bike is a product purchased whole from a reputable manufacturer, and not modified stupidly. many such fires are actually scooters, and the ones that are bikes are unlisted rubbish.

from the chief fire marshall of new york city :

​​​​When we asked Chief Fire Marshall Flynn if there were consistent themes common to most or all of the fires he called out product quality.

While he wouldn’t go into specific details, he said they aren’t seeing problems with high-quality e-bikes, particularly those with UL-certified components.
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Old 12-17-23, 10:56 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by mschwett
a bit of fearmongering there. the fact is that there are vanishingly few - if any - eBike fires where the bike is a product purchased whole from a reputable manufacturer, and not modified stupidly. many such fires are actually scooters, and the ones that are bikes are unlisted rubbish.

from the chief fire marshall of new york city :
Maybe so but the Insurance Companies call the shots so proceed at your own peril.

And New York is a long way from California.
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Old 12-18-23, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Nothing but a urban myth!
Have you called your insurance to ask if fires from e-bike batteries are covered? If not, then you don't know.

I'll be calling mine just to find out, since I'm curious, and I want to know their position regardless.

While we're off topic: the fact that the avg weight of an e-bike far surpasses the avg weight of even a garden variety garbage Huffy (now that's saying something) means they deserve all the scorn one can possibly muster








AND they're ugly.
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Last edited by AdventureManCO; 12-18-23 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 12-18-23, 01:07 AM
  #282  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Does anyone really believe the reason the C&V market has collapsed is because of ebikes? That’s delusional.
Yeah, e-bikes haven't displaced any market share.

It’s purely demographics, those who fondly recall bikes of the 70’s and 80’s are aging out of the sport and have amassed all the bikes they desire or have place to store.
​​​​​​Except most of the fully rebuilt vintage bikes I've sold over the last dozen years have gone to young people.
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Old 12-18-23, 07:49 AM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Yeah, e-bikes haven't displaced any market share.
Interesting Ebike conversation. Consumers should only purchase Ebikes that have a power system certified by an independent testing lab such as UL, CSA, Factory Mutual, etc. The bEike should be labeled as such by the lab. Stay away from the bargain Ebikes that have flooded the market. Insurance companies need to promote this and not stick their heads in the sand.


​​​​​​Except most of the fully rebuilt vintage bikes I've sold over the last dozen years have gone to young people.
I am seeing the same thing. Most of the vintage bikes I've sold this year were to college students and 30 somethings looking for a classic ride. Only one was sold to to a 60yo who was looking for the bike of his youth.
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Old 12-18-23, 09:07 AM
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It's not just C&V. I was at the Phoenix downtown market on Saturday selling bikes for the co-op. It was busy and we had lots of nice conversations with happy customers who bought bikes from us before. But we sold zero bikes. We're still selling a couple bikes a week from the shop and keeping our heads above water, but demand is way down across the board. So many bikes were sold the last few years, it's gonna take a while for that pig to move through the python of demand.
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Old 12-18-23, 09:16 AM
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I wouldn't think that ebikes would have much impact on C&V bike sales. Seems to me they would be very different markets.
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Old 12-18-23, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by albrt
It's not just C&V. I was at the Phoenix downtown market on Saturday selling bikes for the co-op. It was busy and we had lots of nice conversations with happy customers who bought bikes from us before. But we sold zero bikes. We're still selling a couple bikes a week from the shop and keeping our heads above water, but demand is way down across the board. So many bikes were sold the last few years, it's gonna take a while for that pig to move through the python of demand.
The group that I work with in the East Valley is seeing the same thing. We rehab donated bikes and give them to children in need. Some bikes received are higher end road, MTbs or just not suitable for kids. We sell them to help support the operation. This year, sales have been off by 30%.
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Old 12-18-23, 12:29 PM
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Get a grip folks.

C+V riders are aging out of their C+V bikes, many will hang on to them and many are moving to e-bikes at the same time.

I know of half a dozen that have and are transitioning now.

2 of them do half and half, take out the regular bike in the morning for 25mi then take the e-bike out for 25-50mi.

It ain't rocket science and I will get there too as many will if they want to keep riding further longer.

Being cost prohibitive, especially the good ones, it will necessitate curbing collecting and likely selling some to accommodate the change, slippery slope, getting old and tired we may not want to get back on the real bike.

It may be negligible now but I would bet many C+V riders are buying a new e-bike instead of another grail or daily driver wonder crabon cycle.
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Old 12-18-23, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
Get a grip folks.

C+V riders are aging out of their C+V bikes, many will hang on to them and many are moving to e-bikes at the same time.

I know of half a dozen that have and are transitioning now.

2 of them do half and half, take out the regular bike in the morning for 25mi then take the e-bike out for 25-50mi.

It ain't rocket science and I will get there too as many will if they want to keep riding further longer.

Being cost prohibitive, especially the good ones, it will necessitate curbing collecting and likely selling some to accommodate the change, slippery slope, getting old and tired we may not want to get back on the real bike.

It may be negligible now but I would bet many C+V riders are buying a new e-bike instead of another grail or daily driver wonder crabon cycle.
local bicycle shops have been hit hard. Casual conversation yields the sales volume is down big, like 30% or more, this is not ebikes.
those are very different.
I do anticipate a falling out of the bottom of that market. Many of the “affordable” models have suspect quality and life expectancy, repairability.
folk who spend say $1,000 will be really ticked off when the battery goes sour and they find the bike is not economically viable to repair, if they can obtain a good diagnosis.
not Sure how that will shake out, a lowering of confidence in the whole sector?

UL (underwriters laboratory) and similar listings will help some. In the 1960’s the UL approval on appliances was expected, then was still around but almost forgotten.
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Old 12-18-23, 01:12 PM
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There is a bad harmonic of macro economic forces and demand that was pulled forward during the pandemic.
‘things will settle out.
‘the demographics will play a factor- new territory now.

I suggest sell frame sets and components, frame and fork with the headset installed, makes the assembly more achievable for the buyer, and they know there will not be a steerer length issue.
plus shipping will be easier to stomach.
unfortunate for those who have serviceable wheels and not in a major metro area.
a complete bike box is harder to hide from the spouse.
smaller box of components parts, much easier… and excusable.
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