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Schwinn Paramount questions...

Old 08-31-23, 07:32 AM
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Schwinn Paramount questions...

Hi folks,

I'm new here and need your help and advice on a fresh purchase. I DON'T have 10 posts yet but I will get there.

I'm excited because I scored a super deal on a Schwinn Paramount, yet it has some questionable pieces.

(Someone please check out the 'Schwinnn Paramount' album I created and post a few?)

I've been restoring a bunch of 70's Suburban's, Varsities, '53 Black Phantom and others. I love doing this (like you!).

(I also created an album with a few others I have restored.)

Paramount = eBay purchase. Noted vintage bike reseller from Philadelphia area. LOTS of great parts. Gave me a MUCH better deal than listed.

But... I can't find a serial number. I am guessing it's an 80's version. Love the frame sockets. Note the badge; It's certainly NOT original. Something was glued on under the round one. What was there? Could this be something other than a Schwinn?

Steering gooseneck looks janky, not original. Decals look original. Paint is worn.

I paid LESS than $500. No matter what it is, I am pleased. I will be fully disassembling and returning to fresh as best I can.

Experts, please advise? Tell me what you see and know. Hard facts = OK. Thank you.

Jim
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Old 08-31-23, 07:49 AM
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Thanks for joining the forum and congratulations on your new purchase.

I don't know about newer, the numbers on mine should be on the steertube and the nondrive side dropout. I purchased mine as scrapped out mystery frame.
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Old 08-31-23, 07:59 AM
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No markings on non-drive dropout. There is a small round badge: 'Schwinn Quality' and it has Small #0879 embossed on it.

However the badge does not look original? Something larger WAS glued on underneath.

(Sorry I can't post photos yet. I need 10+ posts even paying for a Premium membership. HAHA! I have 30k posts as a moderator elsewhere. LOL!)
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Old 08-31-23, 08:11 AM
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That is a 1970s Paramount with Nervex Professional lugs, surely a repaint with 80s decals. There might be a number hidden under that thick paint on the dropout just in front of the rack screw.
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Old 08-31-23, 08:16 AM
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It's between a 71 and 79 P 13 Paramount. It's been repainted and lost most or all of its original componets. if you drop the fork the serial number should be stamped on it. It will be a letter between A-M and 4 or 5 numbers. Nice Score
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Old 08-31-23, 08:19 AM
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I will pull the fork and look later. Excellent. Thank you.
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Old 08-31-23, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SharpByCoop
I will pull the fork and look later. Excellent. Thank you.
Welcome aboard, glad you found us, you're in the right place, we love Paramount's, I have 9 currently.

The S/N is buried under the paint, looks like somebody was too lazy to mask off the socks or the chrome is bad.

That rack and mount hack needs to be removed post haste

Pic assist





Last edited by merziac; 08-31-23 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 08-31-23, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SharpByCoop
No markings on non-drive dropout. There is a small round badge: 'Schwinn Quality' and it has Small #0879 embossed on it.

However the badge does not look original? Something larger WAS glued on underneath.

(Sorry I can't post photos yet. I need 10+ posts even paying for a Premium membership. HAHA! I have 30k posts as a moderator elsewhere. LOL!)
Badge is a later generic one, the # is for the bike it came off of, the glue or whatever it is from some other bodge.
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Old 08-31-23, 12:42 PM
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in case someone would wish to mount a rear rack or mudguards to the cycle Jim Blackburn Designs produced an adaptor fitting which mounts in the triangular hole of a dropout


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Old 08-31-23, 12:49 PM
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Thank you guys for adding the pics. I will report back soon with findings.

I completely agree on the sophomoric rack. I don't want or need that!

I'll look at fork, and maybe scrape the rear area. That's all going to get redone anyway.

News soon.....
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Old 08-31-23, 02:35 PM
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trainman999 Thanks for the FORK STEM tip....

P282 M7195

These numbers stamped on it. (Photo in album) Please help decipher?

Would their be a source to find exactly what components CAME ordered originally? Longshot, but I'll ask.

Thank you ALL.

Coop
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Old 08-31-23, 04:08 PM
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That is the 95th Paramount built in Dec of 1971. The P 282 meand Don Mainline in Racine Wi built the fork . Look on the BB see if a P number there It is usually back almost to the chain stays. 1972 Paramount order fourm. https://www.schwinnbikeforum.com/SLD...2/72pOrder.htm Schwinn light weight data Book 1972 https://www.schwinnbikeforum.com/SLD..._7074.htm#1972 Enjoy!!!
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Old 08-31-23, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SharpByCoop
trainman999 Thanks for the FORK STEM tip....

P282 M7195

These numbers stamped on it. (Photo in album) Please help decipher?

Would their be a source to find exactly what components CAME ordered originally? Longshot, but I'll ask.

Thank you ALL.

Coop
The components could have varied, likely standard builds but still many possibilities as special order or dealer refits were common, Schwinn would do just about anything you wanted.

Exactly what is a very tall order.
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Old 08-31-23, 04:22 PM
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As a P13, the fork crown should also be chrome.

Welcome to the Paramount Club. Can't wait to see the work you do in order to bring it back to some original glory. BTW, I own a March 1971 P13. Fun bike to ride.

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Old 08-31-23, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SharpByCoop
trainman999 Thanks for the FORK STEM tip....

P282 M7195

These numbers stamped on it. (Photo in album) Please help decipher?

Would their be a source to find exactly what components CAME ordered originally? Longshot, but I'll ask.

Thank you ALL.

Coop
I have no idea what the P282 means, but the M7195 means it was the 95th frame scheduled in December 1971. You can learn all you could possibly want to know about Paramount serial numbers here at the still-operating website.of the late, lamented Waterford, which was the direct descendant of Schwinn's Paramount operation and run by Richard Schwinn until they closed down this summer.

As for the components, it almost certainly would have had: a Campy Nuovo Record rear derailleur; Campy Record front derailleur, cranks, pedals, hubs, downtube shifters (barcons available as an option) and seatpost; Weinmann center-pull (standard) or Campy side-pull (upcharge option) brakes and levers; and a Brooks Pro saddle. I don't remember what the bars and stems were, maybe Cinelli, maybe 3ttt, maybe something else (someone here will know). It likely would have come with sew-up/tubular tires and rims (700c), although it might have had 27" clinchers. It could have been any Schwinn color used on any Schwinn bike. And it would have been the belle of the ball.

If you search for Schwinn catalog 1971, I am confident you can pull up images of the catalog pages and get a good sense of what it looked like when new.
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Old 08-31-23, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
As for the components, it almost certainly would have had: a Campy Nuovo Record rear derailleur; Campy Record front derailleur, cranks, pedals, hubs, downtube shifters (barcons available as an option) and seatpost; Weinmann center-pull (standard) or Campy side-pull (upcharge option) brakes and levers; and a Brooks Pro saddle. I don't remember what the bars and stems were, maybe Cinelli, maybe 3ttt, maybe something else (someone here will know). It likely would have come with sew-up/tubular tires and rims (700c), although it might have had 27" clinchers. It could have been any Schwinn color used on any Schwinn bike. And it would have been the belle of the ball.

If you search for Schwinn catalog 1971, I am confident you can pull up images of the catalog pages and get a good sense of what it looked like when new.
For the bars and stem they should be Cinelli (stem should be "old logo" in '71). The hubs should be high flange, I agree with [MENTION=46382]bikingshearer[/MENTION] for the p13 I would expect the rims to be tubulars, my '71 is a P15 and is mostly original and it has the 27" clinchers.

Also you may be able to determine the original color from overspray. My '73 is chrome, but the overspray on the fork let me know that it originally was green.
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Old 08-31-23, 06:14 PM
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now that you have serial and resulting intelligence data...

it be clear that it shall take more than a respray and transfers to put frame into an ex-works configuration...



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Old 08-31-23, 07:46 PM
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This is kinda, sorta how most of them looked in that time period...







...but they came in a number of colors. As mentioned already, it's possible that whoever painted yours painted over the chrome in places because it was starting to fail or rust in spots.
If you really are going to strip it, for a repaint and rebadge, you will discover if this is the case. I don't invest money in re-chroming stuff, but there are people who do.

But Schwinn chroming from this time period was very high quality, so it might still be OK. You won't know until you take off the paint, if that's what you plan.

The components are not that hard to acquire, especially now with prices on classic steel bikes at an all time low. I would recommend looking at the possibility of finding a complete donor bike, if you need everything. AS opposed to buying the stuff piecemeal on e-bay, which can get pricey buying these components individually. I guess it depends on your ambitions for this particular bicycle. Enjoy it, maybe take it for some rides before you decide how extensively to restore it ?
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Old 08-31-23, 08:17 PM
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Excellent. This is all good info and inspires me further.

I spent 15 mins scraping the LH rear chainstay dropout to reveal a number underneath. It matches the fork: M7195 (Not deep so paint filled it in easily).

I'm sure the wheels were replaced. NGL, I am going to keep them. Finding a correct stem would be easier. Everything else will remain.

It's all in good enough condition to be restored nicely. And That's what I love doing. (Again, at $400 to my door, it's WELL worth it. Not trying to flip it, I want to OWN it!)

The frame repaint will be costly. But it needs doing. Then correct decals, then clear....

I'll keep us posted. I am SO glad to have joined to get this info.

Yes, I WILL ride it when complete. Heck, I am cruising around on any number of restored Suburbans and Varsities and a LeTour now. This will be my treat.

I'll have it all apart over the weekend.

I appreciate you!

EDIT: Posted as the above photos were added by 3alarmer . YAY! It's going to look great. It CAME with a great condition Brooks saddle. That's $100 right there!
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Old 08-31-23, 08:47 PM
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...if you plan on painting it yourself. these '70's Paramount decals, both waterslides and as vinyl stickers, are available on e-bay. For some reason, this one guy has a lot of them.
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Old 08-31-23, 08:52 PM
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[MENTION=570077]SharpByCoop[/MENTION]

Couple of niggles to add, the Brooks shown is a current newer version with black painted rails and chassis B-17 all good, Brooks Pro was original, thicker and harder for many to break in.

Keep an eye out for a Brooks with chrome rails for this.

Many/most of these came with Weinmann center pull's standard, Campy side pulls were optional for extra cost and were not offered on the touring models that could be loaded heavier and being harder to stop.
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Old 08-31-23, 09:29 PM
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I can't help but think of the contrast between entering in the forum this way, and that other guy that started off like 'forum rules suck!' lol

SharpByCoop GREAT score and this is how you do a forum intro. Nicely done. Stick around a while, and you'll eventually end up with 50+ bike and no room to move around. In other words...just like paradise!
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Old 09-01-23, 07:15 AM
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Congratulations on getting such a great deal on this bike! I am envious. If you do the paint yourself I would be very interested to learn some details about how you go about it.
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Old 09-01-23, 08:16 AM
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3alarmer I have dealt with that vendor MANY times in restoring my Black Phantom. Good guy, good deals. Thanks!

merziac Copy on the Brooks B17. LIke the wheels, I'll cap it at what I have, yet keep an eye out. This seat would look great on ANYTHING so it's a good resource. Two of my Suburbans I have added a leather seat. I'll keep these side pulls. They will work OK. Thank you.

AdventureManCO Yeah I was frustrated, yet rules are rules. Once I saw could gallery my images and point to them, it became a non issue. Not a perfect system, but it keeps out the wannabes. I'm catching up fast. I have 15 bikes here at home and three in a storage facility. Ohhh my.

Massimiliano I stink at painting, because I don't have the right setup OR equipment. I WILL strip it with chemicals and see what's underneath. I am not against an ALL CHROME refinish. Either paint or Chrome are going to cost upwards of $500.

How to mask off those lugs? Time for a search of who does this and where....

I still need to get it apart.
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Old 09-01-23, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SharpByCoop
How to mask off those lugs?
Use a liquid mask.
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