Increasing from 5 to 6 speed
 

I'm looking at a set of older Campy hubs with 100/120/mm spacing as they are a 36/40 hole . My plan is to buy a longer axle and replace the 5 speed axle that's there now. I know I'd need to add spacers as would be moving out to 126 (or even 130mm).

Will that work for an increased freewheel size?

I was looking at an axle from Wheels Manufacturing. I bought one from them before when I snapped an axle in a 6 speed rear but that was a straight forward axle-for-axle switch.

https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-p...s/axle-09.html

You can use a 7-speed freewheel with 126mm rear dropout spacing and 7-speed chain. Largest freewheel cog size is largely determined by the rear derailleur's clearance and chain wrap capacity. Clearance can be increased using a Wolf Tooth Road Link (or much cheaper copy from Ebay).

Perfect. Thank you

Why not use an Ultra-6 freewheel in your 120 mm spacing, instead?

At least on shimano I use 8 speed chains on my free wheel setups. The 8 speed chain is the same size on the inside and just a tad narrow on the outside measure. That hasn't been a problem.

I've got a Sunrace 7 speed freewheel 13-28 working in 127 OLD and SunTour New Winner Ultra 6 13-28 working in 122 OLD.
Both use KMC 8 speed chain (KMC X8-93).

The main limit I've spotted is you need about 5.5mm from the face of the small cog to the dropout.

Edit: The 5.5mm is so a SunTour Cyclone II Gt derailleur can pull the chain on to the smallest cog,
it's also enough to avoid chain rubbing on my 2 bikes.

I'd change axle as spacing of frame is 126. Should have stated that initially.

You might be able to get away with just adding spacers if your 5-speed axle is long enough, since you only need a couple of mm of axle protruding beyond the dropout face. That extra axle length doesn’t actually have any function since the wheel is secured by the squeezing of the dropout flats between the locknuts and quick release.

There's a bunch going on with a wheel and changing one variable can change a number of aspects of the equation. With a freewheel hub, going from 5 speed to standard 6 speed will increase the unsupported length of the axle on the drive side and maybe require adding dish to the wheel. Going to 7 speeds increases the "problems". Of course I'm not a small person, YMMV....

Now I'm sure Mr.WGB has a plan, but for my Clydesdale purposes, I would be thinking about running 5 speeds on a 126mm spacing, and reducing the wheel dish. I've got a couple bikes that came set up this way from "the factory"

I've run numerous old Campy hubs with 6 or 7 spd. freewheels and new chro-mo axles. Of course with minor re-dishing.

I have an '83 Expedition with a 6 speed freewheel (126 mm). I changed it out for a 7 speed IRD 13-32 Mark 1 freewheel. The stock axle was a little short, so I replaced the axle with one from a 9 speed Deore hub. I used one washer and axle nut from the Deore hub to space out the drive side just a little and it all worked. I also had to use the skewer from the longer axle.

Stock, my Expedition was supposed to have a 13-30 Suntour New Winner Ultra 6, but for some reason it had a 13-28 Suntour (this was the Expedition's first year, so maybe parts were in short supply?). Replacing the 13-28 with the 13-32, and replacing the inner and middle rings (from 28/44/48 to 24/36/48) I've reduced my gear inches from 27 to 20, given myself a better range in the middle chain ring, and now have better gear spacing.

Thank you all.

I'll give it a shot. Paying $50 for both hubs (plus shipping) so I'll give it a shot and yes I'd forgot about the dishing.

I want more gears for any hills I hit as they will be going on a tourer.

Unless someone has a reasonably priced 40 hole hub.....;)

If you resize your frame to 126mm it would take the occasional 130mm wheel just fine. It would be just a tad of a pain to slide it in but otherwise everything would work as intended.

What a timely thread. Last year, I arrived for my winter months in Jamaica, only to discover that someone had borrowed my Bianchi...
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3416099d84.jpg

And brought it back with a broken rear axle...
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81faf78f74.jpg

Well, foolish or not, I rode the Bianchi for the five and a half months that I spend in Treasure Beach, Jamaica each year. The skewer kept the rear wheel together. Anyway...

I decided to bring a complete wheel, or complete Campy record hub, or just a Campy axle that would be long enough (or longer) as needed. Know what I found out? I did not have a longer Campy axle. So, I hope I have managed to improvise.

Recently, I bought these hubs only to find out that they are not what I wanted/needed.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5d8952520f.jpg

However, it would appear that the Shimano axle is compatible with the Campy cones and lock nuts. Does this make sense? I would hate to get to Jamaica only to find out that it does not work. Any advice would be much appreciated.

.
...I think that your old Campagnolo hub with the busted axle is 26tpi. I never had much luck swapping out anything except another Campagnolo axle on those, but I guess you could use the entire axle assembly, along with the cones and lock nuts, from your Shimano hub and get away with it. I would just bite the bullet and find a new Campagnolo axle in the appropriate threading...probably steal it from another hub I have lying around.

3alarmer

I do have a spare Campy Record hub set, however; the Campy axle is too short. The hub set I have is for a 5 cog freewheel. I need an axle long enough to accommodate a hub with a 6 cog freewheel...
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...52fc65cb26.jpg

The Shimano axle is more than long enough, threaded to properly position and adjust cone/cup position and, used as a complete assembly, I think it will do the job. Boy, I sure hope so. I love riding the lonely roads of Jamaica...
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ccd56819cd.jpg

Randy

I don't know if the shimano will work. I hadn't thought it as an alternative because I wouldn't have thought shimano parts would fit into a Campagnolo hub. If it does work please post as a good few of us will be interested.

I bought an axle from Wheels Manufacturing and their axles aren't keyed which means they're not groved, so they should be stronger than OEM. Axle was $40 + shipping.

My concern would be if your wheel is in Jamaica and you get there and find the shimano solution doesn't work.

You'd then have to order an axle and when it comes find someone with vise as they're over-length and need to be trimmed to fit.

Might check eBay for a solid axle (nutted) they're usually cheaper and probably wouldn't break either.

Solid axles are strong and I've found that a mere 4" adjustable wrench is all that is needed to secure the axle nuts if the threads are kept well-oiled.

Some 4" adj wrenches need to be filed out to the 15mm of most axle nuts (or 16mm, 5/8" on a Schwinn Varsity, lol).

Using modern 8s chain, I find that I can go as low as 3.3mm clearance out from the face of the smallest cog to the outer face of the axle locknut. This is a huge(!) reduction from what many vintage 5s or 6s hubs had, and which was just redundant space that the chain could literally fall into.

So, with many 5s/120mm hubs, a standard 6s freewheel may give running clearance for the chain with just a thin washer added to the driveside. This is what I have done many times, although Campagnolo hubs have less redundant extra axle length since they weren't designed to cope with inward-protruding axle-locating stops or claw hangers.

Lastly, the design of the frame's seatstay may interfere with the chain if larger smallest cog size is used. 12t and 13t smallest cogs give much better chain clearance on those frames that are poorly designed in this area.

As far as wheel strength, it's ok to add a small bit of dish as part of the already-needed equi-tensioning process, and the wheel usually ends up stronger.

Any Shimano 7s freehub can have a 1mm washer removed from each end of it's axle assembly and still provide plenty of running clearance for the chain, this requiring no re-dish at all and ending up with only 124mm over-locknut width.

Well, today I gutted the Campy hub and the Shimano hub, being careful to not mix stuff up. My findings...

The Campy cones do not fit the Shimano axle threads. The lock nut does, but only because there are not enough turns to compound the fit.

I installed the Shimano axle, cones, spacer/washers and lock nuts. The cones were even fitted with rubber dust/debris seals. I adjusted the ball bearing fit to darn near zero clearance and all seemed good. I plan to take the complete axle assemble, which is plenty long and sports generous thread lengths, to Jamaica with me. Once installed, successful or not, I will get back to this thread.

Randy,
Thank you! I'm very interested in this. Shimano axles are cheaper than aftermarket Campagnolo ones. I have several stripped hubs so very interested.

If I was building a 126mm freewheel hub'ed wheel from scratch I would go for something with oversized axles, ie. Phil Wood, American classic, Mavic 5** , etc. This would solve the bent axle problem once and for all.