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Tubular recommendation

Old 10-21-23, 10:37 AM
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Tubular recommendation

I have a recently acquired '74 Raleigh International which hadn't been ridden in decades. It is all original (except handlebars) and I have completely disassembled and rebuilt.

I have been considering relacing with clincher rims but have now decided to take the plunge into tubular tires, which I have never ridden or mounted!

This will not be a regular ride but may do 500-700 miles of easy riding a year on it.

Looking for some advice on a set of tubulars to mount on this considering the infrequency of riding it and my first time mounting them.

Also width recommendation for this vintage ride.

thanks,
Scott

Last edited by strichzwei; 10-21-23 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 10-21-23, 10:59 AM
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We have a sticky thread at the top of this forum for just this topic: Totally Tubular

Iíve been able to fit 32mm tyres in mine no problem, but measure your chainstay gap, the Internationals are notorious for a wide range of manufacturing variation.
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Old 10-21-23, 11:04 AM
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Tubular recommendation..?

Don't do it, Out of curiosity, I decided to try running tubulars on a couple of bikes. I was not blown away by the way they performed and, when I went back to clinchers, I did not notice a great deal of performance change. Keep in mind, that I am not a great rider and have never competed in the racing environment.

Anyway, for the cost and hassle and use of a chemical product, I decided against tubulars from now on. Unless I am restoring a bike that could only be had with tubulars. But that is just me.
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Old 10-21-23, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by panzerwagon
We have a sticky thread at the top of this forum for just this topic: Totally Tubular

Iíve been able to fit 32mm tyres in mine no problem, but measure your chainstay gap, the Internationals are notorious for a wide range of manufacturing variation.
Oh great, while I did some research I missed that sticky, thanks!!!!
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Old 10-21-23, 11:06 AM
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My only advice: don't try to do tubs on the cheap. Yes, there are relatively inexpensive ones out there, but they offer pretty much zero advantage over half-way decent clinchers with all the disadvantages of tubulars. If you are going to put up with gluing and (potentially) repairing them, you might as well get the performance boost as well, and that means being prepared to spend some bucks.

Remember that this advice is worth exactly what you are paying for it.
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Old 10-21-23, 11:17 AM
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Tubulars are tre cool. Iím a Continental fan boy but they are a bear to mount because they are tight. Vittorias are much easier to mount and you can get a deal on some Rally. Like any tire, the more you spend the nicer the ride. Tape is silly and very much un-Raleigh International. Use glue. Donít use sealant. Learn to patch a tubular which is also tre cool. (The Rally tire has uncooperative base tape when repairing.) I started with Gatorskins to decrease the likely hood of punctures.
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Old 10-21-23, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa
Tubular recommendation..?

Don't do it, Out of curiosity, I decided to try running tubulars on a couple of bikes. I was not blown away by the way they performed and, when I went back to clinchers, I did not notice a great deal of performance change. Keep in mind, that I am not a great rider and have never competed in the racing environment.

Anyway, for the cost and hassle and use of a chemical product, I decided against tubulars from now on. Unless I am restoring a bike that could only be had with tubulars. But that is just me.
fearful.
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Old 10-21-23, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
Tubulars are tre cool. Iím a Continental fan boy but they are a bear to mount because they are tight. Vittorias are much easier to mount and you can get a deal on some Rally. Like any tire, the more you spend the nicer the ride. Tape is silly and very much un-Raleigh International. Use glue. Donít use sealant. Learn to patch a tubular which is also tre cool. (The Rally tire has uncooperative base tape when repairing.) I started with Gatorskins to decrease the likely hood of punctures.
Rally 23ís or 25ís
i would avoid the 21ís too narrow.

I would shop around for a tire width of 25-30
for occasional use butyl tubes.
hang the bike- donít let the bike sit and tires go flat and folded tight at the bottom.
consider Miyata rim tape or similar.

the benefit of the old Clement Red adhesive is gone. It would readily retack when changing a tire out on the road.

the best riding tubulars will be expensive and require more care. This used to be readily accepted. Clincher tires are vastly improved over the last 35-40 years.

still miss the Clement Del Mondo
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Old 10-22-23, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by strichzwei
I have a recently acquired '74 Raleigh International which hadn't been ridden in decades. It is all original (except handlebars) and I have completely disassembled and rebuilt.

I have been considering relacing with clincher rims but have now decided to take the plunge into tubular tires, which I have never ridden or mounted!

This will not be a regular ride but may do 500-700 miles of easy riding a year on it.
thanks,
Scott
The first thing I look at when I see a classic bike in the wild, is whether it has tubulars. If period correct is important at all, sew-ups are a must.
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Old 10-22-23, 10:27 AM
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I like Veloflex tubulars. You can find their Pro Tour gumwall in 28c on worldclasscycles dot com.
These ride like the good ol Clement del mundos. And will fit nicely on your International.
Not a fan of most of the Continental brand. Go Vittoria Corsa, if you must.
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Old 10-22-23, 10:54 AM
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Big fan of the Vittoria Corsa Gs here in any size I've ridden. (28, 25 and 23 so far.) Excellent tires! I'm saying this as someone who rode tubulars exclusively on all my bikes for 25 years, then clincher only the next 20 and have converted all my good bikes back to tubular. Yes, you pay real money for them. But they are straight, very well made, have great rubber, wear well and grip well. Heavier and not quite as quick as the sil Clement Criterium Setas I raced a million years ago, but rideable as high quality every day tires, quite unlike those Setas.

I'm not sure where I stand on glue vs tape. I've been using the Tubasti I've been able to find that is labeled for carbon rims (I"m still old-school aluminum) but it doesn't seem to be the wonderful stuff I rode a 1/4 century back then. Last month I rode the week long Cycle Oregon on Velox tape with zero issue. And no flats. Nothing more than pumping up daily (and laying the bike down on deep gravel the undersized 23c's simply weren't up to but that's a bike frame issue, not the tire!) I haven't tried to take a taped tire off yet so the answer isn't in yet. A real plus for the Velox tape - if you follow the package instructions to the "T", you get a tubular install that is as straight as the tire was sewn. With those expensive Vittorias, almost as perfect as a good clincher. Wow! And with perfectly clean hands! My next taping I will try to remember to cut the tape and leave one section between spoke un-taped for the (steel) tire iron for easier removal, especially if my next removal is as difficult with my old and and injured hands as I hear it might be
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Old 10-22-23, 10:59 AM
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I'm a fan of Vittoria Rubino in 28mm, got 4 of them so far and done about 2.5k miles.

Similar to Vittoria Corsa Control I believe but butyl tubes instead of latex.
They also seem to go on quite easily.
I really should try some Vittoria Corsa Control to see if they're better.

BikeInn prices: Rubino 28mm black £51, Corsa Control 28mm black/brown £62
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Old 10-22-23, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by roadcrankr
I like Veloflex tubulars. You can find their Pro Tour gumwall in 28c on worldclasscycles dot com.
These ride like the good ol Clement del mundos. And will fit nicely on your International.
Not a fan of most of the Continental brand. Go Vittoria Corsa, if you must.
I rode their skinny Pro Tour until I flatted the rear going ~20 mph. That thin casing was as squirmy as anything I ever rode and keeping the rear wheel in line while I slowed to a stop was scary. Since much of my reason to go back to tubulars was for peace of mind (I had a clincher come off 10 years ago. Nightmare crash. Haven't fully enjoyed a fast downhill since; until I could do it with well glued/taped tubulars. There was no doubt that Pro Tour was staying on, but not that I was staying upright. So far, my Vittoria flats have just been boring. And that's a state I like.

Sad to say that about the Pro Tours. Maybe that's just saying I am old enough that I wouldn't enjoy the Setas I loved so much back then; that I have been close to 60 mph hour on (and spent a second or so at that speed 2' in the air after hitting a Smuggler's Notch frost heave in a mist where I couldn't see through my glasses. Ah, racing!) That Pro Tour ride is, yes, the old wonderful feel of the silks. Loved them until that scare. I probably just need to unwind about 45 years.
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Old 10-22-23, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
Don’t use sealant.
Eh? Stan's has been an epiphany for me. It's gotten me home without having to mount my spare on a few occasions. It does make the eventual repair a bit more of a hassle though as the inner tube tends to stick to itself.

BTW: my last Vitts were some early Thai made CXes, and the base tape on those was very thin and prone to tearing. Is that what you mean?
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Old 10-22-23, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by roadcrankr
I like Veloflex tubulars.
Did you ride Veloflex sew-ups prior to the ProTours? I'm basically out of fresh Criteriums, and I wonder how the newer ProTours compare to the Crits, Arens, and Roubs they used to make.
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Old 10-22-23, 11:46 AM
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Be a Grand Thing if there were an index somewhere of available tubulars that explains which come with butyl tubes inside, or latex.

I'd been using what I assume were butyl tubes up until I began riding again earlier this year. Bought a pair of Challenge Strada's, mounted one only to find I have to give it a blow-up pretty much every day.

Reading what worldclasscycles has to say about Vittoria Corsa (naught about what kinda tubes're inside) they tell me some run these things w/o tubes inside, just the casing and sealant? Who'dathunk??
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Old 10-22-23, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
I rode their skinny Pro Tour until I flatted the rear going ~20 mph.
I did have one Veloflex Criterium from my old stash that had tread separation and a flat at speed. I suspect that age had had effect on the tread adhesion. This was, of course, on the front. I had a very wiggly few seconds as I brought the bike to a, thankfully, crash-free stop. I can't say I've dealt with any worse things on the 23mm Crits. They have very soft casings, and with complete loss of pressure, they do feel a bit gwishy especially if you're out of the saddle at the time. My question is were you riding the ProTours or the ProTour Races? Have you ridden the previous Veloflex tires, and can you make a comparison?
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Old 10-22-23, 02:59 PM
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Just back from a ride, only to see a couple Mooneys conversing with me. lol
I like Veloflex's Pro Tour. They ride like Criteriums. 25c and got roughly 1,400 from the rear.
I still own some new Vlaanderens in 28c. Those will go on after my 2nd Pro Tour rear wears out.
The latex tubes, from my experience, render a better ride than butyl-tubed sewups.
The extra minute airing these up with my floor pump hardly presents any obstacle or inconvenience.
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Old 10-22-23, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MooneyBloke
Eh? Stan's has been an epiphany for me. It's gotten me home without having to mount my spare on a few occasions. It does make the eventual repair a bit more of a hassle though as the inner tube tends to stick to itself.

BTW: my last Vitts were some early Thai made CXes, and the base tape on those was very thin and prone to tearing. Is that what you mean?
In repairing a Rally, the base tape was some stretchy material and when it finally came away from the casing so that I could get at the puncture is was stretched out so far and permanently that I considered cutting a section out so that I could glue it back on over the sticking without a big wrinkles. The Corsa Pro is a nice tire and more easily repaired. For newbies the Vittoria line is recommended due to easy of mounting -- with glue
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Old 10-23-23, 02:07 PM
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Thanks guys, lots to consider!
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Old 10-23-23, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by spclark
Reading what worldclasscycles has to say about Vittoria Corsa (naught about what kinda tubes're inside) they tell me some run these things w/o tubes inside, just the casing and sealant? Who'dathunk??
That Vittoria Corsa Graphene 2.0 is not a tubular tire. That is an 'open tubular'. In other words a clincher tire that is glued together like a traditional tubular tire.
As far as I know, the only tubeless tubular road tires out there, are the Tufo's, and the Donnelly Strada LGG. (There are more tubeless tubular choices for Cyclocross)
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Old 10-23-23, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
That Vittoria Corsa Graphene 2.0 is not a tubular tire. That is an 'open tubular'. In other words a clincher tire that is glued together like a traditional tubular tire.
As far as I know, the only tubeless tubular road tires out there, are the Tufo's, and the Donnelly Strada LGG. (There are more tubeless tubular choices for Cyclocross)
Vittoria does confuse the issue (and make buying more tricky) by using the same product name for tubular / tubeless / clincher variations:
https://www.vittoria.com/ww/en/tyres/road-tires/corsa
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Old 10-24-23, 11:35 AM
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What to buy will depend on what style of riding you will be doing on this bike. The International is a relaxed-geometry bike that was often used on crap roads in England and France, so you might consider some of the more durable tubular offerings out there. As follows:

Continental Sprinter (22mm or 25mm)
Continental Sprinter Gatorskin (22mm or 25mm)
Tufo S33 Pro 24mm (rolling resistance can be high, though)
Veloflex ProTour 25mm or 28mm ($$$)
Pirelli P-Zero Velo 25mm or 28mm ($$$)

I'd avoid offerings from Challenge (too inconsistent), Vittoria (over-priced, too fragile) and Panaracer (too fragile). If you really need to go cheap - you could try the Yellow Jersey Servizio Corsa deal.

Continental and Tufo offerings use butyl rubber tubes. Veloflex and Pirelli use latex, so they need to be topped off more frequently.

Mounting is best accomplished using Tufo double-sided tape. Glue still works but is messy and takes a couple of days to set properly.
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Old 10-24-23, 12:49 PM
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Thanks for all the feedback folks!
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Old 10-25-23, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kunsunoke
What to buy will depend on what style of riding you will be doing on this bike. The International is a relaxed-geometry bike that was often used on crap roads in England and France, so you might consider some of the more durable tubular offerings out there. As follows:

Continental Sprinter (22mm or 25mm)
Continental Sprinter Gatorskin (22mm or 25mm)
Tufo S33 Pro 24mm (rolling resistance can be high, though)
Veloflex ProTour 25mm or 28mm ($$$)
Pirelli P-Zero Velo 25mm or 28mm ($$$)

I'd avoid offerings from Challenge (too inconsistent), Vittoria (over-priced, too fragile) and Panaracer (too fragile). If you really need to go cheap - you could try the Yellow Jersey Servizio Corsa deal.

Continental and Tufo offerings use butyl rubber tubes. Veloflex and Pirelli use latex, so they need to be topped off more frequently.

Mounting is best accomplished using Tufo double-sided tape. Glue still works but is messy and takes a couple of days to set properly.
Thanks for all that! Useful info in every sentence.

I'll stick with glue for now (pun intended! I have four tubes of fresh stuff on hand, prolly a lifetime supply for me!) and will search out Continental and Tufo vendors when next I need new tires.
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