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[RESTORE] 1960 Frejus Supercorsa

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[RESTORE] 1960 Frejus Supercorsa

Old 11-18-23, 07:17 PM
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there are so many things which can render the seat tube opening for the saddle pillar smaller

overtightening of binder ears as in your case

slight deformation due to heat of brazing joint

presence of foreign matter such as paint, corrosion, dirt

burrs

the nominal correct size for the bicycle is 27.0mm

you could use a half-round file or a piece of emory cloth rapped around a dowel to dress the interior of the seat tube there at the top

the luxury way is to use an expandable blade adjustable reamer - that is the way i do it but not everyone has exactly the right size handy

the purpose of the ream is not to enlarge the opening but rather to get it clear and round


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Old 11-18-23, 07:48 PM
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the luxury way is to use an expandable blade adjustable reamer - that is the way i do it but not everyone has exactly the right size handy
Sounds like a perfect opportunity to use a Flex Hone. I hate tight seat tubes. Those nasty Zs up the side of a seat post drive me crazy.
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Old 11-18-23, 07:55 PM
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some members swear by the use of a brake cylinder hone for this procedure


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Old 11-19-23, 05:10 AM
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I like what they did with the fender mount on chain-stay bridge. Could you do me a favor? I see that you have a G.B. spear-point stem. Can you tell me the length? I have heard that the shortest is 65mm, but yours looks like a 40mm.
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Old 11-19-23, 06:44 AM
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RSC has 68426, a Donna Sport, https://www.registrostoricocicli.com...us/frejus-028/ , as 1958 and 87053, a corsa, https://www.registrostoricocicli.com...us/frejus-039/ as 1959.

Yours seems squarely in-between the two.
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Old 11-19-23, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
I like what they did with the fender mount on chain-stay bridge. Could you do me a favor? I see that you have a G.B. spear-point stem. Can you tell me the length? I have heard that the shortest is 65mm, but yours looks like a 40mm.
This one is definitely shorter than 65mm. If you measure from stem bolt to bar center, it's a 55mm. If you measure from parallel plane of center of steerer to bar center, it's 50mm. Either way, it's one of the shortest stems I have ever seen on a road bike.

Stem bolt to bar center:


Center of steerer to bar center:
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Old 11-19-23, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by iab
RSC has 68426, a Donna Sport, https://www.registrostoricocicli.com...us/frejus-028/ , as 1958 and 87053, a corsa, https://www.registrostoricocicli.com...us/frejus-039/ as 1959.

Yours seems squarely in-between the two.
I did some digging around on the internet archive to find the Frejus registry before it went offline, and I don't think it's quite that early. The tighter grouping of available numbers does put it in the '59/60 window.
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Old 11-19-23, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by purpurite
I did some digging around on the internet archive to find the Frejus registry before it went offline, and I don't think it's quite that early. The tighter grouping of available numbers does put it in the '59/60 window.
Yes, the CR registry is down. Guy knows about it and will get to it eventually. RSC is better for before 1950.
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Old 11-22-23, 07:14 PM
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Ok, so I finally was able to get some time in the studio this afternoon to photograph the bike before we start disassembly. I wanted good "before & after" shots, but I also wanted some really nice photos of the way the bike has been sitting for the last 40 years. Other than removing the bent seat post collar bolt, this is exactly how the bike was presented to me when I bought it.

There are a few more shots now in the Flickr album, if you are interested in seeing more. Enjoy!




















Last edited by purpurite; 11-22-23 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 11-22-23, 07:34 PM
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Kinda tight gearing ...
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Old 11-22-23, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by John E
Kinda tight gearing ...
No joke. It's actually a bit terrifying. I might have to update that a bit. 😅
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Old 11-22-23, 08:43 PM
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wrt pillar size and fitment -

here is an excellent recent post from member verktyg

he begins with a discussion of metric tubing which is not pertinent to the subject machine

scroll down and he writes of pillar sizing and fitment in general with excellent illustrations

Peugeot DT shifter boss thread


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Old 11-22-23, 09:27 PM
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...I have this one here that is remarkably similar. I had always assumed the yellow on the lugs and stay ends was because the chrome went bad. I have the original chainwheel pair around somewhere. This was modified to be more realistic on hills. I don't know why, but I think of this one as early '60's. I think the original owner who sold it to me told me that. Otherwise, the components I got when I bought mine were these:









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Old 11-22-23, 09:41 PM
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Frame serial numbers are quite close...

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Old 11-23-23, 03:25 AM
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What surprises me most about these is the braze-on cable stops and downtube shifter bosses. All the upper-end Frejus models I have seen from later in the 1960s have only had a rear derailleur casing stop. That 77382 seems to prove that these were not added later, but are original to your bike.

I love to get these old bikes closer to what they came with when I can find the right parts at cheap prices, and everyone is certainly welcome to spend as much money as they want on their bikes, but for me anyway, kissing away huge amounts of cash to have such things as original Gaslo end plugs is a fool's errand. I would consider buying reproductions if they ever become available, but the handlebar tape had been replaced on my '65 when I got it so I wrapped it with Neubaum's tape, added a pair of Velox end plugs I had in my stash, shellacked them and the dried-out Universal lever hoods, and am very pleased with the result, which cost me less than 20 bucks., This bike was a rider and trying to get it back to how it came from the factory is not being true to its rich history. I think its infinitely more interesting as a mongrel.
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Old 11-23-23, 03:53 AM
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Certainly, one of the greatest head badges of all time.

Also, I've had excellent results cleaning up seat tubes with an inexpensive brake cylinder hone and drill motor.

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Old 11-23-23, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela
front wheel may well be original to the bicycle. you will be able to read a date on the inner face of the axle locknuts; would expect either "59" or "60"

Whelp, I was expecting to see a lot of different potential dates on the front wheel axle nuts, but this certainly wasn't one of them. I'm beginning to loathe and also love the weird idiosyncrasies of the build on this bike. It's like tearing away wallpaper in an old house finding one riddle after another as you peel back layers of time. Hub balls and cone races look to be in great shape under the dried up white lithium grease, though. I'm happy. Think I'm going to look for a rear Campy hub to match this one for the wheel build up.

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Old 11-23-23, 10:01 AM
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both your example and that of 3alarmer exhibit temporal contradictions in relation to nominal proposed dates

do not wish to argue with proposed dates but both cycles send conflicting messages wrt kitting

one is headset

your example exhibits a Record model headset which did not yet exist in 1960 so am thinking either cycle later or headset is a replacement

the Campag catalogue Nr. 14 of 1960 shows only the Gran Sport model headset as is seen on the machine of 3alarmer



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Last edited by juvela; 11-23-23 at 11:32 AM. Reason: spellin'
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Old 11-23-23, 11:08 AM
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Agreed. I really do feel now that this bike probably sat for some time as a frameset before being purchased or built up well after its born-on date. It currently sits with such eclectic components that pinning down its true birthday is probably a pointless endeavor. However, I'm going to build it back up with the same mindset—a bike that would have been build by a high performance bike shop in the 60s after finding it in storage somewhere in the rafters. It will definitely make it considerably easier to not be OCD about finding parts from a specific year, instead looking to find components and parts that are era-appropriate to a 60s-era racing bike.
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Old 11-23-23, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela
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front wheel note - when you check the axle locknuts you can at the same time check the spoke head logo
would expect either Redaelli Lario or Alpina
there is a directory of the symbols here:

Spoke Head Identification Chart
So this was fun. I donno why, but I enjoy taking apart wheels, and I sat in the cold garage after a day of food and family and did the front wheel tonight. The bike will eventually have a new clincher wheelset built on this front hub and a new rear, but I wanted everything intact once it was disassembled.

The majority of the spokes are Italian Stella spokes (star in a circle) and there are THREE with a logo I don't recognize on the chart. A 4-pointed diamond of some sort—definitely not the 5-point star in a circle like the rest of them. Could these be the "unknown" Redaelli spokes from the chart? I have no idea, but it's a weird shape on the spoke head.

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Old 11-24-23, 08:12 AM
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do not recall seeing that one previously

on the spoke in the middle the symbol reminds me of the cartoon face of Bozo The Clown with the pointed tufts of hair on either side of the head

symbol likely to be recognized by another reader more knowledgeable


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Old 11-26-23, 12:59 PM
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A little Sunday "before & after" with the Campy "No Record" front hub. The locknuts said '66, but I still can't believe it. The skewer was all rusted together, so it was pulled apart, dunked in a tub of Evaporust over night, polished and re-assembled with some fresh grease in the head. The hub was removed from the wheel (I will be building clinchers for this build), disassembled completely and then run through a couple of passes in the ultrasonic bath. Once it was removed and dried, I went over the entire hub with 4-ought steel wool and then a final buff with Nev-R-Dull to get the final finish. It cleaned up very nicely, and if the rest of the bike cleans up like this, I'll be thrilled. It hasn't been rebuilt yet, as I'm waiting for the new 7/32" ball bearings to arrive.

Now to find a somewhat matching 36-hole early low-flange Campy rear hub and straight-blade skewer to complete the set for the wheel build.





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Old 11-28-23, 09:02 PM
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1950's era brochure from Jaggard Mills, the UK stockist for Frejus -


​​​​​​
​​​​​​

​​​​​​Frejus - Classic Factory Lightweights

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Old 12-02-23, 02:51 PM
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I started taking apart the bottom end last night and man, it was gross. Covered in decades-old grease, dirt and who knows what else? The crankset came off relatively easily with the right tool. Both the drive side and the NDS bottom bracket cups also were pretty easy to get off. I was worried that after 6 decades, it was going to be a bear to remove, but I guess everything soaking in grease and oil for such a long time kept it all free. Sure was filthy, though. I think there were some type of weird eggs in there, too.





Took a few hours this morning to get everything into the ultrasonic bath to clean it all to see what we have. Looks like the bottom bracket is a Williams splined AB77 spindle with Campy Record cups. Par for the course for this bike, I guess.





Time for a bath...


Everything cleaned up beautifully—the inner Williams chainring looks like it has very few miles on it. The Regina CS chain cleaned up and looks like new, as well. I need to measure the link stretch to make sure it's still usable, but it looks really fresh. The BB cups, spider, chainring bolts and everything else looks great...





EXCEPT, the bottom bracket spindle. I'm really gutted about this. When I pulled the spindle out of the ultrasonic cleaner to wipe down and dry, I inspected the ball races to find terrible pitting and galling on one side of one side of the spindle. Not all the way around, but on HALF of the race. I know how rare these are and how often they turn up for sale (never), so this is a huge blow the drivetrain re-use. I was 50/50 on moving to a Campy crankset to keep it a mostly Campagnolo build, and I guess this seals the deal. If you have one or stumble on a Williams splined BB spindle (117mm) in your travels, let me know. I'd like to make this crankset complete someday. At least I should be able to find a correct Campy Record spindle a little easier.

Really extra crummy...


Next I'm going to move to disassembly of the front end to get that headset off the bike and into an Evaporust bath. Maybe later this week.
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Old 12-02-23, 03:07 PM
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Unfortunately the bottom bracket does not surprise me. I have found that bikes that appear to have not been serviced in a long while…. The spindle is toast.

50/50 some of the hub cones are afflicted the same way.

this is one of the quiet realities of a deferred service bike, in a competitive bidding situation one is just gambling. Feeling lucky today?

wondering out loud… if the spindle could not be ground and cartridge bearings fitted that could be compatible with cups designed for same, Edco, Avocet, F.A.G?
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