Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Cinelli 1a stem handlebar bolt spinning

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Cinelli 1a stem handlebar bolt spinning

Old 11-17-23, 10:12 AM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dallas
Posts: 357

Bikes: 71 Lygie72 Raleigh Grand Prix76 Raleigh Super Course76 Bruce Gordon74 Raleigh International(2)2005 Specialized Roubaix Pro

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 148 Times in 69 Posts
Another wild idea. What about using one of those little butane pencil burners that some people use to spot solder stuff and apply heat to the end of the female allen head sleeve bolt to maybe cause that to expand enough to loosen its grip on the smooth headed male bolt?

Causes in addition to a stem bar mismatch over-tightening, may be if washers are missing. But Im not looking at my 1A and dont remember if there were any in front or back?

if the epoxy would hold that idea from MH for the win!
obuckler is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 10:29 AM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,465

Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1561 Post(s)
Liked 2,117 Times in 1,051 Posts
OK found one like yours


__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 10:55 AM
  #28  
Senior Member
 
gearbasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sitting on my butt in front of a computer
Posts: 1,454
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked 655 Times in 316 Posts
I'll have to correct myself from my previous post. I said I've only seen one 1A stem with a knurled bolt. Well, make that three. This thread made me investigate two NOS stems I have. They both have knurled bolts. The strange thing is that one of the stems is notched for a keyed bolt.



As a side note. I once bought a complete bike with a 1A stem and somewhere down the line, somebody put the key on the bolt 180 degrees from the notch. So, it was at the thinnest part of the stem and it caused the stem to crack.

Last edited by gearbasher; 11-17-23 at 11:00 AM.
gearbasher is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 11:06 AM
  #29  
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Portland, Cascadia
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 68 Posts
I hope the stem is notched, because the bolt definitely isn't. I think there's no way it would be spinning this far in if it weren't a knurled nut. If that's the case, I'll want to find a keyed bolt.

I should know better that to ask, but... a keyed seatpost bolt wouldn't happen to fit in here, would it?
jPrichard10 is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 11:06 AM
  #30  
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Portland, Cascadia
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by gearbasher
I'll have to correct myself from my previous post. I said I've only seen one 1A stem with a knurled bolt. Well, make that three. This thread made me investigate two NOS stems I have. They both have knurled bolts. The strange thing is that one of the stems is notched for a keyed bolt.



As a side note. I once bought a complete bike with a 1A stem and somewhere down the line, somebody put the key on the bolt 180 degrees from the notch. So, it was at the thinnest part of the stem and it caused the stem to crack.
That second one looks like a recipe for disaster similar to my stem. Can you find the keyed bolts anywhere?
jPrichard10 is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 11:17 AM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 19,873
Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3260 Post(s)
Liked 2,545 Times in 1,817 Posts
Mike Kone had them, he sold out his inventory a while ago to another seller, Name escapes me. He had they type with the single notch.
repechage is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 11:52 AM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
gearbasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sitting on my butt in front of a computer
Posts: 1,454
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked 655 Times in 316 Posts
Originally Posted by jPrichard10
That second one looks like a recipe for disaster similar to my stem. Can you find the keyed bolts anywhere?
Funny you should mention that. I never throw anything useful away. So, when I mentioned the cracked stem, I figured I had saved the keyed bolt. I went looking and found the binder bolt and an XA clamp bolt, but not the keyed one 1A clamp bolt.
gearbasher is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 11:58 AM
  #33  
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Portland, Cascadia
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by gearbasher
Funny you should mention that. I never throw anything useful away. So, when I mentioned the cracked stem, I figured I had saved the keyed bolt. I went looking and found the binder bolt and an XA clamp bolt, but not the keyed one 1A clamp bolt.
For my own curiosity, does a keyed seatpost binder bolt fit?
jPrichard10 is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 12:30 PM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
gearbasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sitting on my butt in front of a computer
Posts: 1,454
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked 655 Times in 316 Posts
Originally Posted by jPrichard10
For my own curiosity, does a keyed seatpost binder bolt fit?
AHH, a chance to experiment. Yes a keyed seat post binder bolt will fit. See photos. But, do not do it. Actually the key is on the female threaded "nut" side of a seat post bolt. Cinelli calls for a torque spec. of 15 N.m. on the handlebar binder. The seat post binder suggested torque is 4 - 6.5 N.m. I've snapped a dozen seat post bolts. So, once again, I wouldn't do it.



Last edited by gearbasher; 11-17-23 at 02:50 PM.
gearbasher is offline  
Likes For gearbasher:
Old 11-17-23, 12:35 PM
  #35  
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Portland, Cascadia
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 68 Posts
Thanks for being my guinea pig.

I've never snapped a seatpost binder, so good to know.
jPrichard10 is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 01:50 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,723

Bikes: Paramount, Faggin, Ochsner, Ciocc, Basso

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1197 Post(s)
Liked 1,630 Times in 1,005 Posts
It might be an outside chance but if there is enough room for a thin tip pair of needle nose pliers might be able to clamp the bolt/nut in the stem long enough to loosen the bar clamp bolt. I have a pair of locking tip pliers but the tips are pretty thick and would not fit in the stem. I would be sure some ATF/ Acetone or Kroil would be soaked into the threads. Smiles, MH
Mad Honk is offline  
Likes For Mad Honk:
Old 11-17-23, 02:10 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,465

Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1561 Post(s)
Liked 2,117 Times in 1,051 Posts
@Mad Honk - I think the sleave of the Alan nut blocks the threads of the bolt. One of the benefits of the design for the bolt threads to not be so exposed as the first set of pictures I presented.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 02:16 PM
  #38  
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,544

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaa pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 849 Post(s)
Liked 674 Times in 367 Posts
The ideal tool would be thin aluminum or brass pliers thin enough to hold the exposed bolt thread.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 02:17 PM
  #39  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,503

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 260 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4309 Post(s)
Liked 5,757 Times in 3,354 Posts
Originally Posted by jPrichard10
Thanks for being my guinea pig.

I've never snapped a seatpost binder, so good to know.
Get or make a stout as will fit in the slot washer that is bigger than the stem at the bolt.

Cut it in half and sandwich it in on the shaft of the bolt, then carefully apply Vise Grips to clamp down on the shaft and see if it will come loose.

You could use 2 small pieces of a hacksaw blade for more bite, maybe.

Also maybe apply super glue at the front to help hold the bolt, again maybe.
merziac is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 02:57 PM
  #40  
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,430

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 303 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25606 Post(s)
Liked 9,540 Times in 6,638 Posts
Originally Posted by jPrichard10
This should be an easy one...
...nothing is ever easy with Cinelli stems. All mine are keyed, but I know of no source for the binder bolts that is reasonably priced. I have tossed several of the other ones, with that stupid wedge thingy to hold the bar in place. It always cracks.
__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 03:09 PM
  #41  
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Portland, Cascadia
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds
The ideal tool would be thin aluminum or brass pliers thin enough to hold the exposed bolt thread.
No exposed threads for me.
jPrichard10 is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 03:11 PM
  #42  
Senior Member
 
P!N20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wurundjeri Country
Posts: 2,354
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1026 Post(s)
Liked 1,762 Times in 863 Posts
Originally Posted by jPrichard10
I agree, it does look like the nut isn't flush with the end; maybe it's the wrong one?
​​​​​
​​​​
Looks correct to me.

I had to hacksaw a clamp bolt once, but my issue was it was stuck and the hex end was rounded enough that limited the purchase I could put on it. It was one of the keyed bolts.

Luckily a mate had a stuck 1A stem he had to cut out, so I grabbed his bolt.
P!N20 is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 03:16 PM
  #43  
seor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 8,507

Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo

Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3710 Post(s)
Liked 6,130 Times in 3,051 Posts
I always use a 4mm allen key to spread the Cinelli clamp while positioning the stem on the bar sleeve. I hold the wrench and stem in one hand and the bar in the other. Not sure why this solution won't work as well in this case. I would try everything before destroying the bolt or nut.
SurferRosa is online now  
Likes For SurferRosa:
Old 11-17-23, 03:22 PM
  #44  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,503

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 260 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4309 Post(s)
Liked 5,757 Times in 3,354 Posts
Originally Posted by jPrichard10
No exposed threads for me.
DOH!

Nevermind on my idea then.

Dremel mini cutoff wheel or hacksaw in the slot then, salvage the short back end and use something like this I found at the hardware store.

Not as elegant but cheap and good enough for me.




merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 11-17-23, 05:52 PM
  #45  
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,923

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2241 Post(s)
Liked 2,681 Times in 1,719 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac
DOH!

Nevermind on my idea then.

Dremel mini cutoff wheel or hacksaw in the slot then, salvage the short back end and use something like this I found at the hardware store.

Not as elegant but cheap and good enough for me.




Is that a thick enough bolt Van? The buttonhole end looks sort of cool though.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is offline  
Old 11-17-23, 08:37 PM
  #46  
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Portland, Cascadia
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 68 Posts
Well, I gave up with this stem, but not in the way you think.

The best thing to do was to remove the bolt, inspect for damage and try to put the bolt back in a way that would hold better the next time around. Using different Allen wrenches, I slowly got the nut to hold to make a tiny bit of progress. Went from a 2mm Allen to a 4.5mm Allen with this grip:



At this point, I wasn't able to pull hard enough to get the nut to "stick" anymore. But what I was able to do was mount some handlebars in it. Initially, these were just supposed to be a passive wedge, as my Allen wrenches marred the stem something awful. But with diminishing returns as they were, I gave up and started cranking down the other way on the bolt.



After a little struggle, I got the nut to stop spinning and cranked down hard. The nut is now embedded much deeper in the stem than before, a good sign that I might have some luck removing it someday.

But that's not my plan. I can hopefully go the rest of my life without ever loosening this bolt now. If the bars go, the stems go, and what I have put together let no man separate.
jPrichard10 is offline  
Likes For jPrichard10:
Old 11-18-23, 02:18 AM
  #47  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,503

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 260 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4309 Post(s)
Liked 5,757 Times in 3,354 Posts
Originally Posted by jdawginsc
Is that a thick enough bolt Van? The buttonhole end looks sort of cool though.
It's the same thread as the original, the back piece is original, you mean long enough?

Its stainless and I have had bars mounted with plenty of torque.

I have used stainless bolts for replacements on the MC at the dragstrip with perfect results so I'm very confidant these will work just fine.
merziac is offline  
Old 11-18-23, 05:57 AM
  #48  
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,923

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2241 Post(s)
Liked 2,681 Times in 1,719 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac
It's the same thread as the original, the back piece is original, you mean long enough?

Its stainless and I have had bars mounted with plenty of torque.

I have used stainless bolts for replacements on the MC at the dragstrip with perfect results so I'm very confidant these will work just fine.
Good to know. I have two stems that need the pinch bolt.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is offline  
Old 11-18-23, 06:48 AM
  #49  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 5,749

Bikes: many

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1397 Post(s)
Liked 1,232 Times in 690 Posts
Just thinking out loud here. I've never tried this. Slide the tail end another stem (wedge style) into the clamp space and snug it up to apply pressure on the clamp, then try loosening the Allen key bolt end. 🤷‍♂️
__________________
Monti Special
smontanaro is online now  
Old 11-18-23, 07:50 AM
  #50  
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,544

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaa pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 849 Post(s)
Liked 674 Times in 367 Posts
Maybe too late, but I thought you could use a drill press with a wooden dowel, with the stem on a vise, to press on the bolt.
Reynolds is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.