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Alloy

Old 11-27-23, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dmarkun
Why is it common to refer to high end aluminum in the bicycle world as alloy, but high end steel is hardly ever called alloy. Like this question from quora: "Which is better chromoly or alloy?"
For what it's worth, this isn't a "bicycle world" issue, it's much larger than that. Aluminum wheels on motor vehicles are routinely called "Alloys", for example.

Basically, in inaccurate and vernacular American English, "alloy" is a synonym for "aluminum".
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Old 11-27-23, 02:26 PM
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I don't know the names of Aluminum and Titanium Alloys used in bicycle frames. I do know a few in older steel frames and enjoy pleasant conversations with others that do. All in all Steel Remains Real.

There are many but these few come to mind.

853
531
Dedecciai
Columbus
CroMo
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Old 11-27-23, 03:48 PM
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Why do cyclists ride bikes, but bikers ride motorcycles?

Why is the one clean-shaven guy in ZZ Top named Frank Beard?
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Old 11-27-23, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes
"none" is plural.
.... "none" are plural ......
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Old 11-27-23, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Portlandjim
Instead of assuming everyone will know that when you say "alloy" you mean "aluminum alloy", it's helful to always describe this material using both words. All steel is an alloy. Although when it includes more than just carbon "steel alloy", implies higher properties than carbon steel.
Basic steel isn't an alloy since it only has one metallic element. Iron and carbon. "Alloy steel" is different from "steel".

By tradition, small amounts of metal additives are also not called "alloy steel", while the term is reserved for higher concentrations of other metals

I would not be surprised if pure aluminum had a bad rep at one point, and emphasizing the fact that it is an alloy was key to getting cyclists to accept rims and components made of it. 6061 was originally known as "Alloy 61S" in 1935.

Last edited by Kontact; 11-27-23 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 11-27-23, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Basic steel isn't an alloy since it only has one metallic element.
FYI, not per Merriam-Webster.

Originally Posted by https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alloy
1 : the degree of mixture with base metals : fineness
2 : a substance composed of two or more metals or of a metal and a nonmetal intimately united usually by being fused together and dissolving in each other when molten
also : the state of union of the components
3a : an admixture that lessens value
b : an impairing alien element
4 : a compound, mixture, or union of different things
an ethnic alloy of many peoples
5 archaic : a metal mixed with a more valuable metal to give durability or some other desired quality
(emphasis mine)

Nor Cambridge. Or Brittanica. Or any other reference that I can find.
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Old 11-27-23, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mrv
.... "none" are plural ......
Enclosure of "none" in quotation marks presents it as an example that is thus grammatically singular. Same as this example: "boats" is usually the wrong term for describing ocean-going vessels.
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Old 11-27-23, 06:14 PM
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Some people get torqued up when definitions and grammar ain't used correctly, even when it's understood what they're talking about.

The classic example is the term brass brazing. Is it bronze? Is it brass? I use Gasflux C-04 Nickel bronze when I'm not using Harris 56 or 50N silver alloy. I'm fine saying it's either brass or silver, I'm pretty sure no one gets confused.

Now, let's argue about clipless pedals. Don't you clip into them?
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Old 11-27-23, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
Now, let's argue about clipless pedals. Don't you clip into them?
"Strapless" or "clip-in" would have been better. "Clipless" is dumb. I know where it comes from, but it's still dumb.
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Old 11-27-23, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dmarkun
Why is it common to refer to high end aluminum in the bicycle world as alloy, but high end steel is hardly ever called alloy. Like this question from quora: "Which is better chromoly or alloy?"
The real question is why don’t we call them solutions? That’s what they are…homogeneous solid mixtures which is the definition of a solution.
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Old 11-27-23, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
"Strapless" or "clip-in" would have been better. "Clipless" is dumb. I know where it comes from, but it's still dumb.
Who's the jerk that first called snapping into clipless pedals "clipping in"?
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Old 11-27-23, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TC1
FYI, not per Merriam-Webster.

(emphasis mine)

Nor Cambridge. Or Brittanica. Or any other reference that I can find.
Sure. So water with iron dissolved in it is an alloy.
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Old 11-27-23, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes
"none" is plural.
Or singular. “None” is photon or electron of language. It can be singular…”there is none available”…or plural…”none of the tests were positive”. It’s what you need it to be when you need it to be that thing. A photon is a particle when it needs to be and a wave when it doesn’t. Depends on the context.
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Old 11-27-23, 07:34 PM
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Where I'm from it's aluminium, SO YOU'RE ALL WRONG!
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Old 11-27-23, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Same as this example: "boats" is usually the wrong term for describing ocean-going vessels.
Submarines and sailboats? I know… “usually.”
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Old 11-27-23, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...if we called these components "aluminum", there would be huge controversy over whether to use the American version, or the UK's "aluminium". There's already the controversy over "tires" versus "tyres". Why can't everyone just get along ?
I'm pretty black and white on a lot of things with no gray (grey) areas. But if someone wanted to gift me financially, I would accept a cheque as readily as a check.
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Old 11-27-23, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Sure. So water with iron dissolved in it is an alloy.
Sure, if you can get water not to boil off when mixed with molten iron, or if you can fuse water and iron together, then in either case, you've got an alloy. Good luck with that.

That said, you are arguing the wrong person. Take your complaint up with all of the people who publish those dictionaries, which, with a few others, are cumulatively the authority on the English language -- not with me.
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Old 11-27-23, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
I can see this devolving into a brass vs bronze brazing argument.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

I need to remember this wisdom the next time we discuss (or not discuss) my bicycles (with my wife). 😉
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Old 11-27-23, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TC1
Sure, if you can get water not to boil off when mixed with molten iron, or if you can fuse water and iron together, then in either case, you've got an alloy. Good luck with that.

That said, you are arguing the wrong person. Take your complaint up with all of the people who publish those dictionaries, which, with a few others, are cumulatively the authority on the English language -- not with me.
Iron wouldn’t form an alloy with water because iron isn’t water soluble and water isn’t an element. Alloys are solid solutions of elements and, usually, only metals. Carbon is an nonmetalic element in iron but, for the most part, alloys are metal mixtures. Alloys can only form if the elements are soluble in each other and there are a lot of metals that won’t alloy together. Lead and zinc, for example, won’t alloy. Iron won’t alloy with copper, tin, bismuth, or aluminum. Copper won’t alloy with tungsten. Slagesium that is currently being sold on a whole lot of Chinese bicycles from HellMart is likely iron that hasn’t been separated well from the other metals in the waste stream. It likely contains copper, tin, and aluminum which are fairly common in mixed metal waste streams.
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Last edited by cyccommute; 11-27-23 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 11-28-23, 12:27 AM
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somebody wake me up when we get to hypereutectoid microconstituents
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Old 11-28-23, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Who's the jerk that first called snapping into clipless pedals "clipping in"?
Valid point.
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Old 11-28-23, 10:03 AM
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My clipless pedals and shoes have cleats, and are, therefore, clipless.
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Old 11-28-23, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Valid point.
It goes back further. Who was the person who called the metal bands on pedals “clips”? They are foot cages. Synonyms for “clip” are things like fastener, clasp, catch, pin, buckle, lock, etc. A “cage” has synonyms like enclosure, pen, and confine which is what a “toe clip” does even without the straps.

None of the words for clip actually fit the description of the “toe clip”. They fit the description for the mechanism for clipless pedals perfectly.
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Old 11-28-23, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by madpogue
My clipless pedals and shoes have cleats, and are, therefore, clipless.
When talking about being connected to clipless pedals, people generally use the term "clipped in". How can you be clipped in to something with no clips?

As pointed out by cyccommute, the term "clips" is bad, from the start. The downstream effect of that poor bit of terminology continues to haunt us.
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Old 11-28-23, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
When talking about being connected to clipless pedals, people generally use the term "clipped in". How can you be clipped in to something with no clips?

As pointed out by cyccommute, the term "clips" is bad, from the start. The downstream effect of that poor bit of terminology continues to haunt us.
Now we need to discuss alloy clips.

Supposedly made by Shimano for the 7400 pedals, but I’ve never seen them…
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