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Cannondale mystery frame & build

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Cannondale mystery frame & build

Old 01-05-24, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by KCT1986
Hmm, 1.25" threaded!!! Very interesting.

Most of the 1.25 that I've seen were threadless. Not sure who made/makes headsets in that configuration.

What is the inner size of the steerer? That may be a weird size to find a quill/threadless adapter for.

What is the inner size of the headtube (for fitting the headset race/cone)?

Let us know what you end up using for this setup.
Lots of questions for sure! When I saw the 1.25" threaded I became really confused.

If you look at the M700/M800 in 1994, they were set up threadless with the 1.25" steer tube and that is my plan for this one. I'll grab some measurements of the inner steer tube and headtube which will be needed to figure out a headset for it.
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Old 01-05-24, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Trav1s
Lots of questions for sure! When I saw the 1.25" threaded I became really confused.

If you look at the M700/M800 in 1994, they were set up threadless with the 1.25" steer tube and that is my plan for this one. I'll grab some measurements of the inner steer tube and headtube which will be needed to figure out a headset for it.
FYI, here is a couple of Shimano headsets that were available in 1.25 back in the day. Shows the 'normal' specs for 1.25.

SI-T-38-000-00-ENG_GER_FRA.pdf (shimano.com)

SI-78V0C-000-00-ENG_GER_FRA_DUT.pdf (shimano.com)
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Old 01-05-24, 12:26 PM
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WFH Friday so I seized a few minutes and took measurements of the bike.

Seat tube = 27.2mm if I got the measurement correct

Steer tube I.D = 1.12"/28.45mm
Steer tube O.D = 1.25"

Upper/lower head tube I.D. - 1.45"/36.40mm

BB I.D. = 1.33"

Last edited by Trav1s; 01-07-24 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 01-05-24, 05:03 PM
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Looked at the materials more and I am 99.9% sure it is a M700 in deep indigo blue.

Why?
The M700 (and lower models) was available in smaller sizes like this 16" and color options were deep indigo blue or diamond metallic black.
The M800 was only available in 18"/20"/22" sizes.

Drivetrain components were similar. Wheels and tires were different.

The quest continues!

Originally Posted by Trav1s
I've spent some time reviewing the 1993 and 1994 product catalogs on vintage-cannondale. There were two blue color options at that time - indigo blue pearl and cobalt blue pearl. I'm putting my money on indigo blue pearl as the color of this frame. Looks like the (pepperoni?) fork is intended to be set up as threadless headset.

Could this be an M800 "Beast from the East" frame in a custom color?




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Old 01-05-24, 06:32 PM
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Grabbed the old 27.2mm seat post from my Quick 1 and it fits. Iíll use it until I pick up a Thomson. Another mystery solved
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Old 01-08-24, 01:20 PM
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Just sent an inquiry to Cane Creek about a headset, already got a response, and sent some additional pics.

Last edited by Trav1s; 01-08-24 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 01-08-24, 01:47 PM
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I would pass on the Force 40 brakes Trav1s . That is just my opinion though. I had them on my Cannondale M400 and fiddled around with it thinking that they are probably finicky to set up, but once set up they should be good. The bottom line for me was that since my bike was a rider, I would just switch to the simple, effective and easy to set up linear pull calipers. Of course, I had to change the brake levers as well. But I have a stash of trashy parts. I've got the calipers in a bag if I ever want to make the bike a non-rider. But that is not likely to happen.

By the way, nice find.
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Old 01-08-24, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule
I would pass on the Force 40 brakes Trav1s . That is just my opinion though. I had them on my Cannondale M400 and fiddled around with it thinking that they are probably finicky to set up, but once set up they should be good. The bottom line for me was that since my bike was a rider, I would just switch to the simple, effective and easy to set up linear pull calipers. Of course, I had to change the brake levers as well. But I have a stash of trashy parts. I've got the calipers in a bag if I ever want to make the bike a non-rider. But that is not likely to happen.

By the way, nice find.
I get lucky one in awhile... this is ene of those times. Really lucky to find it in my size. The challenge will be to keep it in my possession as my daughter is on a blue bike kick and keeps eyeing the frame on my build table.

Thanks for the heads up on the brakes. I had considered them but really XT/XTR makes the most sense for me. I'll probably upgrade the brakes on another bike and swap them over to this one. The pics show why...



These were already removed from the bike in the above pic.


Maybe I should just hunt down matching derailleurs/shifters to go with this XTR stuff. I do love the charcoal finish. It would look great on a set of titanium bars...

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Old 01-09-24, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Trav1s
I just sent Cannnondale customer support an inquiry... now we wait.
Received the following response and itís what I expected.

Hello!

Unfortunately our immediate records wont have any information this frame. I would recommend checking out Vintagecannondale.com as they have a ton of great information on bikes and frames from this time period.

Thank you!
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Old 01-11-24, 09:33 PM
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So I have been on a research marathon trying to figure out next steps. I found myself with three options in order of preference:
- Locate a 1 & 1/4" headset and keep the Cannondale fork (excessive reading and research involved)a
- Find a 1 & 1/8" fork and headset, build the bike, and make a lamp out of the unused Cannondale fork
- Build a lighted display case for the frame and build a lamp out of the fork

The Headset design is called an "Evolution headset" and there is a fair amount of information on the interwebz about them. There are vintage options out there that show up on the auction site but its a bit wait. While looking at the 1994 Sales Brochure, I saw Dia Compe Aheadset on the headset but had no luck searching for it. More reading and searching lead me to a NOS Dia Compe headset on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/296116217837. I ordered it tonight and have my fingers crossed. I found a second one that is missing pieces that I am tempted to purchase.



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Old 01-11-24, 09:44 PM
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TangeSeiki.com also has a threadless option: https://tangeseiki.com/jm/products/h...ess-1-1-4.html

I sent an inquiry before I found the NOS Dia Compe on ebay.
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Old 01-12-24, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Trav1s
Thanks for the heads up on the brakes. I had considered them but really XT/XTR makes the most sense for me. I'll probably upgrade the brakes on another bike and swap them over to this one.

Maybe I should just hunt down matching derailleurs/shifters to go with this XTR stuff. I do love the charcoal finish. It would look great on a set of titanium bars..

.



have second gen XTR stuff on this bike - $$$ - but works very well .. or should I say did Ö

of course a large branch kicked up and got tangled in the drivetrain - and destroyed the RD, cassette, chain, and rear wheel (spokes)
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Old 01-19-24, 02:56 PM
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I purchased the second 1.25” Aheadset I found on eBay for $20. It is missing a bearing set and the star that goes in the steerer. It arrived today. I'll look into finding another bearing set for this.

The complete one is somewhere between northern California and Ohio at this time with not ETA.








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Old 01-19-24, 04:25 PM
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There are 21 4mm bearings in the race fwiw
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Old 01-19-24, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Trav1s
There are 21 4mm bearings in the race fwiw
AKA 5/32" bearing balls. (Not sure, but I don't think Japanese and Taiwanese companies ever specified bearing balls measured in millimeters.)
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Old 01-19-24, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
AKA 5/32" bearing balls. (Not sure, but I don't think Japanese and Taiwanese companies ever specified bearing balls measured in millimeters.)
Thanks for the info! Any suggestions where to source them?
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Old 01-19-24, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Trav1s
Thanks for the info! Any suggestions where to source them?
You could always replace the one missing ring with loose bearings.
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Old 01-19-24, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Trav1s
I purchased the second 1.25Ē Aheadset I found on eBay for $20. It is missing a bearing set and the star that goes in the steerer. It arrived today. I'll look into finding another bearing set for this.

The complete one is somewhere between northern California and Ohio at this time with not ETA.






You didn't update us on the fork that found to replace the original. Rigid or short travel shock?
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Old 01-19-24, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by KCT1986
You didn't update us on the fork that found to replace the original. Rigid or short travel shock?
With these headsets I should be able to use the original blue fork that came with the frame. I test fitted the crown race on the fork and looks to be correct. I also tried the headset and it looks to be correct for the frame. I'll share some pics tomorrow.
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Old 01-19-24, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bboy314
You could always replace the one missing ring with loose bearings.
That's what I'd do. That said, a quick search showed that Modern Bike and Planet Cyclery might stock 5/32" balls in a retainer ring that's compatible with the headset. Didn't look on Amazon, but they may be available from a bike shop that has an Amazon store, too.
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Old 01-20-24, 07:47 AM
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I don't get how you can use a threadless headset on a threaded fork. I have available a 1.25" threaded headset off of a Cannondale road bike, and a quill stem or 2 if you are interested.

Last edited by John D; 01-20-24 at 07:48 AM. Reason: add description
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Old 01-20-24, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by John D
I don't get how you can use a threadless headset on a threaded fork. I have available a 1.25" threaded headset off of a Cannondale road bike, and a quill stem or 2 if you are interested.
Thanks for the offer on the headset - I'll keep it in mind.

As for the threadless headset on a threaded fork... I'm not going to overthink it and ask a few questions:
- Does it matter how bearing preload is applied? The threaded heatset and the threadkess headset accomplish the same thing by different means.
- If I had displayed the steer tube with the threads cut off, would that change the way people look at it? I suspect so and yet the threadless headset would work the same way at either length - the head bolt/cap/stem are used to provide bearing preload.

I'll post up pics of the work as I go.
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Old 01-20-24, 08:19 PM
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How will you preload the bearings with a threadless headset? The steer tube will be too short for a threadless stem to fit, and the top race or cup (depending on the headset) will not have a way of being secured or preloading bearings.
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Old 01-20-24, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Trav1s
Thanks for the offer on the headset - I'll keep it in mind.

As for the threadless headset on a threaded fork... I'm not going to overthink it and ask a few questions:
- Does it matter how bearing preload is applied? The threaded heatset and the threadkess headset accomplish the same thing by different means.
- If I had displayed the steer tube with the threads cut off, would that change the way people look at it? I suspect so and yet the threadless headset would work the same way at either length - the head bolt/cap/stem are used to provide bearing preload.

I'll post up pics of the work as I go.
The question is how much longer is the forks steerer as compared to the frame headtube. Usually threadless headsets needs about 25-30mm (stack height), or so for top/bottom. The threadless stem usually run in the 30-40mm range, at least. Also, not sure if clamping a stem on the threaded portion is a good idea. Don't have experience with a 1 1/4 steer tube to know.

A method that may work is to use a seat tube clamp to secure the headset after preloading, then use a quill stem.
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Old 01-21-24, 06:06 AM
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Got it... I suspected we were talking past each other which is a result of my lack of terminology..

Here's the facts as I see them and how I came up with the current plan...
  • The 1994 M700 and M800 BFTE shared the same fork with the 1.25" steerer tubes
  • Cannondale sales brochure (pics earlier in the thread) show both M700/M900 set up with threadless stems
  • Headset in the same pictures are Aheadset branded
So, with the information above, it seems fair/logical that the fork shipped with the frame shared the dimensions with bikes in the picture and would be able to be used with a threadless headset.

I can see the concern with clamping a stem to the threaded portion of the headset and understand the difference in stack height. I'll post up pics of those measurements later for reference. I took pics of this information when I contacted Cane Creek about a headset a couple weeks ago.

Thanks again for the discussion and willingness to share your knowledge. I've spent my entire life wrenching on cars and farm machinery so the mechanical portion is not a big deal. My challenge is learning language and quirks of design. Sometimes the best learning comes from trial and error...
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