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My 1946 Holdsworth Cyclone project

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My 1946 Holdsworth Cyclone project

Old 01-15-24, 07:39 PM
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My 1946 Holdsworth Cyclone project


Here are some photos of the finished bike I have been working on for more than half a year. The frame is a 1946 Holdsworth Cyclone. I replaced all the frame tubes except the fork blades and chainstays. The parts are not perfectly period correct, some items are slightly later. I made from scatch or heavily modifed almost every part. Ask questions! Here is a link to a photo set:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VvF8QpewU6MkQ37E9

Jim Merz
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Old 01-15-24, 07:42 PM
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Is that a Cinelli chrome stem? Smiles, MH
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Old 01-15-24, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Is that a Cinelli chrome stem? Smiles, MH
No, it's a lugged GB Kromo. Not better than a Cinelli, but cooler IMHO.
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Old 01-15-24, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Portlandjim
Here are some photos of the finished bike I have been working on for more than half a year. The frame is a 1946 Holdsworth Cyclone. I replaced all the frame tubes except the fork blades and chainstays. The parts are not perfectly period correct, some items are slightly later. I made from scatch or heavily modifed almost every part. Ask questions! Here is a link to a photo set:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VvF8QpewU6MkQ37E9

Jim Merz
This is really beautiful work.
All the lugs are from the original frameset?
I'm not sure how to ask this question - when does the re-built frameset go from being a repaired frameset to a replica? (not that a replica is bad in anyway if it's true to the original)
-- kinda like the old saying: this is my favorite ax, I've replaced the handle 3 times and the ax head twice - it's my favorite!

By the way - I picked up a late '80s Specialized Allez "Jim Merz" edition! It had really been abused & neglected. I couldn't find a proper decal set, so after cable guide modifications I painted it Spray.Bike plum. Ended up super disappointed in my not-so-handy work. Hopefully I'll have it on the road in the spring with an 80s Shimano 600 group. Possibly I'll have a local painter re-do it to that really nice original blue.
Cheers!
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Old 01-15-24, 08:05 PM
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[QUOTE=mrv;23130512]This is really beautiful work.
All the lugs are from the original frameset?
I'm not sure how to ask this question - when does the re-built frameset go from being a repaired frameset to a replica?

All the frame fittings are from the original frame, except for the rear dropouts. For various reasons I made them. I had to modify the head lugs in order to utilize a modern 1" drop in sealed headset bearing​s. The original integrated bearing race pockets were toast. The new headset is vastly superior. I consider that this frame was heavily repaired! Jim Merz
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Old 01-15-24, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mrv
when does the re-built frameset go from being a repaired frameset to a replica?
Also known as the Ship of Theseus paradox, first written down 2000 years ago but probably much older. If philosophers haven't answered the question after two millennia, who are we to even try?
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Old 01-15-24, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mrv
This is really beautiful work.
All the lugs are from the original frameset?
I'm not sure how to ask this question - when does the re-built frameset go from being a repaired frameset to a replica? (not that a replica is bad in anyway if it's true to the original)
IMO, considering what it takes to rescue lugs without ruining them and making them work in the best, likely even better way than before and the craftsmanship, expertise and skill
it takes to make this happen, this is literally uncharted territory.

This is better than new at a level that is very seldom if ever achieved.
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Old 01-15-24, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bulgie
Also known as the Ship of Theseus paradox, first written down 2000 years ago but probably much older. If philosophers haven't answered the question after two millennia, who are we to even try?
I, me, maybe we are nobody to try, Jim however succeeds where many/most can't even get started, likely aside from yourself as well.
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Old 01-15-24, 09:38 PM
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That is just stunning
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Old 01-16-24, 04:14 AM
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Lovely job and the paint enhances it. Awesome pinstriping.

What are the braze on loops on the rear seat stays and back of the fork blades?

PS: How the heck do you machine one-off chainrings???? Haha.
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Old 01-16-24, 08:52 AM
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Lovely work, Jim,

I may be dreaming, but I feel like you shared the bike with us a few weeks ago already and had quite a few responses in that thread!

Originally Posted by jdawginsc
What are the braze on loops on the rear seat stays and back of the fork blades?
Those are the fender mounts.

-Gregory
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Old 01-16-24, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
Lovely work, Jim,

I may be dreaming, but I feel like you shared the bike with us a few weeks ago already and had quite a few responses in that thread!
-Gregory
Yes, I did post one photo of this bike a week ago or so. I guess I should have used that post instead of starting a new thread. Jim Merz
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Old 01-16-24, 09:28 AM
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to me the fork blades are the coolest part of this bike. Really like them.

Stunning piece of work. There's tons of detail in every part.

Great callout by bulgie on the ship of Theseus. I'm reminded of the Ferrari 250LM that was rebuilt to perfection from a burned wreck, not much left except a twisted frame and the data plate. Is it still a Ferrari ? Of course it is.

/markp
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Old 01-16-24, 11:59 AM
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The end of the BB spindle suggests that is a Merz part. Cartridge bearings and custom cups possibly too. Much effort.
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Old 01-16-24, 12:56 PM
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For people interested and willing to dig into cycling companies' history - there seems to be a fair amount written about Raleigh/Carlton and the Holdsworthy company.

I love the older lightweights, even more when rebuilt/refurbished/restored to ride (within a group rotation). Seems purposeful,......and so classic.




my Holdsworths (branded as Irish Hardings) are '72 Pro & '80 Special
edit: If anyone knows of a 60ish cm Clive Stuart, I'm interested.
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Old 01-16-24, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
The end of the BB spindle suggests that is a Merz part. Cartridge bearings and custom cups possibly too. Much effort.
Yes, I made the bottom bracket. The spindle is made from 17-4 PH high strength stailess steel. The cups are in 303 stainless. I made the cotter pins and nuts out of 17-4 PH also. The lock ring is one I made from titanium. Bearings are Enduro. Jim Merz

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Old 01-16-24, 02:22 PM
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Jim, wow- words donít suffice! That is fantastic work. All of the custom parts, paint, and that box lining are unbelievable! Well done!!
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Old 01-16-24, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mrv
This is really beautiful work.
All the lugs are from the original frameset?
I'm not sure how to ask this question - when does the re-built frameset go from being a repaired frameset to a replica?

All the frame fittings are from the original frame, except for the rear dropouts. For various reasons I made them. I had to modify the head lugs in order to utilize a modern 1" drop in sealed headset bearing​s. The original integrated bearing race pockets were toast. The new headset is vastly superior. I consider that this frame was heavily repaired! Jim Merz
Jim,

This is beautiful work, and I love that you went to such lengths to get the bike back into service and also make it far more serviceable/maintenance free! Your Holdsworth looks truly stunning. And I'm very impressed with the sealed bearing cottered bottom bracket!

Besides having to rework/rebuild the headtube to accommodate modern bearings, were there other contributing factors for replacing all the frame tubing? Light-weighting, or maybe getting the bike to fit you a little better?
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Old 01-16-24, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Portlandjim
Yes, I made the bottom bracket. The spindle is made from 17-4 PH high strength stailess steel. The cups are in 303 stainless. I made the cotter pins and nuts out of 17-4 PH also. The lock ring is one I made from titanium. Bearings are Enduro. Jim Merz
I wonder how many bikes there are out there with cottered steel cranks and a titanium lockring?
Maybe titamium just because it was already "lying around" in his shop, so it was the easiest path?

Reminds me of when the '90 Goodwill Games track races were at my local track. The Soviet mechanic had a truing stand made of titanium. When asked why, he said he wanted to make it out of steel, but couldn't get any. The Soviet planned economy put a large subsidy on titanium, to the point where here were tales of shovels and rakes being made of the stuff when steel wasn't available or economical.
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Old 01-16-24, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bulgie
I wonder how many bikes there are out there with cottered steel cranks and a titanium lockring?
Maybe titamium just because it was already "lying around" in his shop, so it was the easiest path?

Reminds me of when the '90 Goodwill Games track races were at my local track. The Soviet mechanic had a truing stand made of titanium. When asked why, he said he wanted to make it out of steel, but couldn't get any. The Soviet planned economy put a large subsidy on titanium, to the point where here were tales o f shovels and rakes being made of the stuff when steel wasn't available or economical.
Only in the USSR Comrade.
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Old 01-16-24, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PlymouthJLA
Jim,
Besides having to rework/rebuild the headtube to accommodate modern bearings, were there other contributing factors for replacing all the frame tubing? Light-weighting, or maybe getting the bike to fit you a little better?
The original frame had something like a 21" seat tube. Way too small for me. I replaced the tubes with the same Reynolds 531 ​tubing gauges​,​ so it's in fact a bit heavier​ as it's a larger frame. ​

Originally Posted by bulgie
I wonder how many bikes there are out there with cottered steel cranks and a titanium lockring?
Maybe titanium just because it was already "lying around" in his shop, so it was the easiest path?
I made a bunch of reproduction Campagnolo titanium lock rings several years ago. Because these parts are rather difficult to make from titanium, and I was trying to sell them for what I thought was a reasonable price, I made some special workholding tooling for the job. If the tooling takes more time to make than the part, you need to make more parts to recoup this cost. So I made too many and they didn't sell. Rather than make on​e stainless steel lock ring, I used one of the extra titanium ones I had on hand.

Jim Merz
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Old 01-16-24, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bulgie
I Reminds me of when the '90 Goodwill Games track races were at my local track. The Soviet mechanic had a truing stand made of titanium. When asked why, he said he wanted to make it out of steel, but couldn't get any. The Soviet planned economy put a large subsidy on titanium, to the point where here were tales of shovels and rakes being made of the stuff when steel wasn't available or economical.
Ric Hjertberg (Wheel Fanatyk) has one of those CCCP stands. See pic below.

/markp

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