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Strange LeMond ID help wanted

Old 01-16-24, 01:11 PM
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Strange LeMond ID help wanted

Take a look see. For starters, imported??

what is this really?





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Old 01-16-24, 01:22 PM
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Billato? Billato built Lemonds "what's the story"
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Old 01-16-24, 03:44 PM
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Perfect

thank you
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Old 01-16-24, 04:03 PM
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I didn't know Cycle Art painted for Ten Speed Drive Imports.
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Old 01-16-24, 04:05 PM
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Years ago, I got lost in the rabbit hole trying to find information on the early LeMond bikes. Great looking bikes with very little information on them. I have a Bilato built Concorde, hardly any info on that one too.
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Old 01-16-24, 04:13 PM
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Robvolz , is there anything stamped on the bb shell, usually seen over by the drive side? Possibly there's a size and some letters.
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Old 01-16-24, 05:00 PM
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Ten Speed Drive Imports Serial Numbers?
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Old 01-16-24, 08:17 PM
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I'll get back to you.
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Old 01-17-24, 01:24 AM
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Odd that there are zero engravings on the brake bridge, fork crown, seat stays, etc. No tube sticker badge. Looks like a repaint?
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Old 01-17-24, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JSL
Odd that there are zero engravings on the brake bridge, fork crown, seat stays, etc. No tube sticker badge. Looks like a repaint?
Hmm... I am thinking it is the original paint. Definitely signature LeMond colors...

Early version of his bikes from Billato...
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Old 01-17-24, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc
Hmm... I am thinking it is the original paint. Definitely signature LeMond colors...

Early version of his bikes from Billato...
The seemingly original Ten Speed Drive decal does favor original paint, when I look again. Must've been very early production with it not having any engravings.
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Old 01-17-24, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JSL
The seemingly original Ten Speed Drive decal does favor original paint, when I look again. Must've been very early production with it not having any engravings.
That’s what I was thinking. First wave in trademark blue and gold. First iteration of those internal cable routings.
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Old 01-17-24, 05:41 AM
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Paint does appear to be original but I'm not aware of Cycle Art doing any painting for Ten Speed Drive Imports. The orginal concept of TSDI that Tom Eason had was to import frames unpainted (usually from Billato) and align/paint them in Florida. In the early days, they were painted with Dupont Imron.



Eason even created the brand of Tommaso bikes and clothing as a play on his name "Thomas". The frames were contract built by Billato and the clothing was subcontracted as well. Ultimately, Eason expanded TSDI to California and did subcontract paint work (he did it in FL as well with local painters). However, I am not aware that he ever used Cycle Art but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Here is a documented paint subcontractor in CA, Jim Allen @ CycleSmiths. Also mentioned above, the lack of engraving on the Silva brake bridge which was pretty standard for Billato/TSDI. None of this means I know what I'm talking about, it just means that being a collector of TSDI brands, these things stand out as incongruent.
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Old 01-17-24, 07:44 AM
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I think Mondonico also built for TSD.
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Old 01-17-24, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckk
I think Mondonico also built for TSD.
True
In 1984, Mondonico started producing frames for Guerciotti and later supervised Guerciotti subcontract builds by Billato.
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Old 01-17-24, 08:40 AM
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At one time, CyclArt was doing wholesale painting for some builders. I have seen Richard Sachs frames from the early 1980s that have the CyclArt decal and appear to be in original paint. It's just conjecture, but these might have been painted as a stop-gap measure while TSDI was setting up their own painting facilities during their westward expansion. I think the frame alignment deal was just marketing, as they should have been spot-on from the factory. There may have been lower duties on unfinished frames, and the Italian paint of that era was notoriously fragile. I find it much more believable that this frame is in original paint than that those decals were reproduced.
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Old 01-17-24, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, this is weird. Aside from what has already been mentioned.

You have "Team Lemond" decal from the bikes made by Carnelli with a "Ventoux" decal clearly from the Billato built era. Head badge is completely different.

All the TSDI one's to pass through my hands have had the TSDI decal under the downtube, not on the seattube.

That scalloped seat stay does match my old, early Billato built Ventoux but the points on the seat tube lug seems longer to me. I've'seen Ventoux with both external and internal cable routing on the top tube.




I've never seen any Billato built Lemond without the tubing type and frame size stamped on the bottom so curious if that is on this one.

Sometimes Roberta Billato will respond via his facebook on bikes like this. Just post detailed pics to include the underside of the BB. You can also email him.
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Old 01-17-24, 10:50 AM
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I look at that frame, and I think to myself: "nice, but it's too damn big." :-(
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Old 01-17-24, 11:03 AM
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Do the decals seem to be clear coated? I know that in the day TSD would supply decal sets to dealers and we used them on old junk bikes as a lark. I had an old Panasonic DX 2000 rattle canned with Full Guerciotti decals.
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Old 01-17-24, 01:27 PM
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I'm only an enthusiast and not an expert, but that style of brake bridge on the rear seatstays definitely looks like Billato to me.
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Old 01-17-24, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mhespenheide
I'm only an enthusiast and not an expert, but that style of brake bridge on the rear seatstays definitely looks like Billato to me.
Correct, its is the same Silv made brake bridge, just not with the normal pantograph.

And as best I can tell the Tour De France decal on the seat tube is printed with dates for the races on it. A lot of times the reproductions won't be dated. That decal can be used to help date the bike too.

The "blank" one on my Team Z Lemond is yet another indicator of my bike being a repaint.

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Old 01-17-24, 01:48 PM
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It is hard to see in the photo, but the Tour de France champion decal looks like it only has 1986? So wouldn't that make this frame 1987 or 1988?

Also, and I am not sure if this means anything, but I had a 1988 TSDI Masi Nuovo Strada that had the TSDI decal on the seat tube. So maybe they did that in 1988?

If this was built in 1988, does that help id this as a Carnelli, Billato or Mondonico?
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Old 01-17-24, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mhespenheide
I'm only an enthusiast and not an expert, but that style of brake bridge on the rear seatstays definitely looks like Billato to me.
I'd say, yes and no. That particular flat bottomed bridge was used on some Billato for sure, but was also used extensively on frames out of the Ciocc factory (including Conti, and Concorde when they were makng them). Also was used in the mid 80s by Merckx, and I'm sure there are others. I'm more used to seeing Billato Lemonds with a curved brake bridge, adorned with Lemond engraving as previously mentioned. As jamesdak says, stampings will tell much. Cinelli spoiler BB shell implies quality.
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Old 01-17-24, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Seanaus
I'd say, yes and no. That particular flat bottomed bridge was used on some Billato for sure, but was also used extensively on frames out of the Ciocc factory (including Conti, and Concorde when they were makng them). Also was used in the mid 80s by Merckx, and I'm sure there are others. I'm more used to seeing Billato Lemonds with a curved brake bridge, adorned with Lemond engraving as previously mentioned. As jamesdak says, stampings will tell much. Cinelli spoiler BB shell implies quality.
I think this Silva page shows the bridge on this bike and then the style we normally see on the Lemonds.

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Old 01-18-24, 05:52 AM
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Lots of cool brake bridges to choose from yet I have not seen several used on any bikes. Seem to be certain “go to” models.
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