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Phil Wood hubs question/help

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Phil Wood hubs question/help

Old 01-23-24, 07:22 AM
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Phil Wood hubs question/help

I purchased a real nice set of wheels (maybe from an inmate here) and have been using them on my vintage road bike, 7 speed with 130 spacing.
I am shaking things up a little and want to move them to my 100/120 track bike and want to change the hubs to bolt on in the correct spacing.

The hubs may be vintage Phils, polished chrome, flawless, with 36 hole , sealed bearing, low flange's all identical dimension both sides , set up with threading on one side that will carry one of my White Ind. free wheels.

I have called and emailed Phil Woods with no answer or return of any sort so I may have the wrong email or maybe the hubs are too old for them to bother with.

Any advice at all is appreciated, I figure I could mod the existing hub ends but I would rather get all the right stuff.

I can post pictures later today

Thanks


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Old 01-23-24, 08:45 AM
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I believe the axle ends of Phil hubs are either pressed on (early) or threaded (I've got an early set and they were pressed on). If you want to change the spacing you need to get new axle ends from Phil. I don't think it's really something one can bodge together/DIY. I contacted them last year using this email and got a response pretty quickly- service@philwood.com
This is the phone # they included in the email response- (408)569-1860
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Old 01-23-24, 08:51 AM
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The hex shaped hole in the axle end leads me to believe that those screw on.
Brent
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Old 01-23-24, 09:06 AM
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If I may way in, and photos of the horizontal section/cross piece of the hubs would be helpful.

My assumptions:
1.The center section is polished steel(as opposed to burnished)
2. The ends of the center section are slightly flared as the flanges attach
3. Looks like "Phil" is almost hand painted with nail polish(it isn't)

If so, I believe you have a set of very desirable, FIRST GENERATION Phil hubs.
(I have an example is my collection)

Subtle changes appear in second issue of first run.
Desirable, just not like having the first run hubs.

My recommendation not to attempt anything yourself.
Send them to Phil for:
a) identification ,
b) any changes you want to make

or c) keep them as they are and buy a second set of wheels for your project.

rusty
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Old 01-23-24, 09:17 AM
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These hubs are the one piece alloy version Phil makes starting in the nineties, you can remove the axle with 5 mm allen key as Brent noted.

Last edited by John D; 01-23-24 at 09:19 AM. Reason: acknowledgement.
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Old 01-23-24, 09:21 AM
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there is a 5mm hex broach inside the quick release ends of those hubs. the end bells will unscrew and you can replace them with equivalent items to acheive a smaller OLD.

whether you can get those pieces anymore. from Phil I do not know. The part #s are YFXCBQ (front) and YRXCBQ (rear)

and then you will have to figure out re-dishing, which may or may not be possible with the spoke lengths you have (check under the rim stirps.

suggest you contact Phil at sales@philwood.com or call them at 408 298-1540

/markp

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Old 01-23-24, 09:24 AM
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The photos you show are the later one piece hubs, but you said it has a chrome plated hub body. As other have mentioned, the hub shown in the photo will have threaded end caps. However if you do have the earlier hubs, this is how to work on the bearings.

I have worked on the Phil hubs with a steel main body and aluminum flanges. I had a similar issue, but the other way around. I had a 120 rear hub and needed a 126 IIRC. I had the advantage of living close enough toSan Jose that I could take the hub to them. I just wanted to purchase the axle sleeve that would be swapped out. I don't remember the reason, other than company policy, that they wouldn't just sell me the sleeve. Because I worked for Specialized, and knew Phil from early in his hub production, I raised some hell. The guy behind the counter finally handed me the part coyly and said don't tell anybody, and he didn't charge me for the part. He also showed me how to take the axle apart. These early Phil hubs were designed sort of cave man style, almost all the parts are held together with red Loctite. To get the spindle/axle assembly out of a hub with no freewheel mounted, just tap the non drive side with a plastic hammer. One fairly good blow and it pops free. Then you have the axle assembly with both bearings mounted. The end caps are Loctited on the spuds going through the bearings. You get an old spoke and place the J bend inside of the QR hole on one cap, place the bearing on that side above a vise jaw, with a long 5mm steel shaft (a long 5mm hex key works) that touches the spoke inside the cap, a blow with a hammer and the cap comes off. If you have gone this far, replace the bearings. I would use Enduro bearings, they have custom made seals for bicycle use, and more of the proper grease for bicycles. Clean all the Loctite residue, and use red Loctite to reassemble. It's really pretty easy, but I doubt that they will sell you the cap seperatly. If you have to send them the whole wheel for them to do it, it's going to get expensive. They were not cheap for their labor, and they may not even work on these old hubs anymore. If you have someone with a lathe, it would be rather easy to make a new end cap. I would use 303 stainless steel. Or, just forget about getting these wheels. I don't think much of these hubs myself. They don't work very well if used in the rain, the seals open to the weather aren't good enough. The large volume of air inside of the main body sucks water in when going from a warm house to the cold rainy outside. I tried to use these hubs back in the day, in Portland Oregon. I got about a week of use before they started squeaking. Phil did have a good warranty, he installed new bearings for free. So, I just got an extra pair of axle assemblies so one set was on the bike, the other getting new bearings! Better to just use Campy hubs, one can just clean and install new grease once in a while. Jim Merz

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Old 01-23-24, 11:22 AM
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Wow. Jim Mertz is on this frequency. Very cool. It's nice to hear someone else pointing out that the Emperor is not wearing clothes. People rave so about their 'bombproof' Phil hubs, but from a design perspective, it's hard to understand why. I suppose in the early days when the only real decent hubs that would last were Campagnolo, and the other upstart sealed bearing hub, Hi-E, required the flanges to be removed to get to the bearings, Phil's hubs really were a fine alternative, and there are a lot of people who have racked up an awful lot of miles on them, Phil had something special, but just one look at those fully-exposed seals left one scratching their head as to what was the big deal. One thing Phil had going for these hubs was a robust axle design that minimized misalignment, which is important for annular bearings, but why not stainless steel center housings instead of the thinly plated ones that always seem to rust up? This hub should have been designed with a shield outside the bearing that would keep most of the dirt and water away from the fragile seal, as should have the bottom bracket. I think the best things to come out of Phil's shop were the spoke machine and oval tandem tubing. His grease is good, but overpriced, and the Tenacious Oil belongs on every mechanic's shelf (refill with chainsaw bar oil).
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Old 01-23-24, 02:23 PM
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Glad to have some info.! I have had the axle bells off both the front and rear, the axle then just pulls right out, no problem.

I'll send another picture or two
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Old 01-23-24, 02:44 PM
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I have a feeling that Phil Wood isn't going to have replacement track axles in stock that will fit their vintage hubs, but I'd love to be wrong on that point.
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Old 01-23-24, 02:56 PM
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Well three scenarios, I could run my track bike, (I use it as a road bike anyway) with QR's like it has, I can figure a way to grind something down to increase the clearance. Or, I could put them back onto a 7 speed vintage bike, I am always putting one of those together Or I could just sell the Hubs on eBay.

I was hoping I would get an answer from them though.
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Old 01-23-24, 03:36 PM
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That hub appears to tb of the FSA(Field Serviceable Axle) variety from the 90's. I have two sets, the ones from 1999 have a wavy washer between the body and bearing, the one's from 2011 do not. The only images I found were from ******, and I couldn't find a way on the effing website to extract just the image, so here's the link instead https:// www. ******. com/r/BikeMechanics/comments/kdoi92/does_anyone_have_the_original_phil_wood_fsa/

For some reason, red-dit dot com is blocked. So you must figure it out for yourself, sorry, the web sucks sometimes.

As for changing the axle, call them as email just gets bogged by spam filters. Obviously you only need the axle, no need to send the wheels to them, though they may try to convince you otherwise. As if the cost of shipping them was just a few dollars ... hah hah. The bearings can be pressed in either using another same size bearing, or as the filed serviceable name implies, it can be done using the QR given it's long enough, which it should be.

That they deleted all the content they had about servicing these is to me unconscionable. As if all the people that have these hubs running just don't exist. They're okay hubs, I hold no reverence for the brand above any other. Either a hub works or it doesn't. I don't like the bearings being exposed, despite their claims of being so well sealed. I think the Sanshin/Suntour/Specialized cartridge bearing hub design is my favorite, especially the later ones with the Greaseguard fittings. The use a common threaded axle so no issues ever with resizing. Easy to replace the bearings if needed.

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Old 01-24-24, 09:29 AM
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There are some installation / maintenance docs on their support page. Doesn't include the old freewheel hub, but I reckon its service is similar to a QR front hub, which is documented.
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Old 01-24-24, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bykemike
Well I was hoping I would get an answer from them though.
so Phil has not replied back ? did you call them ?

/markp
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Old 01-24-24, 11:31 AM
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I did but I will try again this afternoon

I will be sure I am using the correct number as well, Thanks for the prompt to try again
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