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Installing tubulars today for the first time. Please advise.

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Installing tubulars today for the first time. Please advise.

Old 01-24-24, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SJX426
...You can use new rims for mounting spares and new tires too.
...
Just a warning about use of any new or good used rims for stretching tubulars.

I've seen un-laced lightweight rims get bent from someone's moderate efforts at stretching on a new tubular. Not fixable.
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Old 01-24-24, 03:19 PM
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Sewups give the most amazing ride...so supple, so sure footed...such a f'ing pain in the arse to repair when you puncture a brand new Vittoria Corsa CX...lol I don't even know if they still offer this model but it was my all time favorite to race on...120psi and 21mm in a crit...nothing like it back in the '80's when we knew no better lol.
I tried Continental 250 Sprinters and they were crazy fast but just didn't have the supple feel of the Corsas.
I also had a pair of Vittoria "silk" sewups...my goodness I've never ridden a tire that felt so supple and had the most grip I've ever felt leaning into a fast turn in a crit. But holy moly were they expensive.
I still remember how much fun it was to un-sew the section of tire where I was 'sure' the puncture was only to realize it was ten inches away which meant more cutting, patching then resewing the tire back together and gluing the base tape back on.
I had my "race wheels" for just races and a pair of training wheels which were heavier duty and used a less expensive tire and everyone had a cheap "Swallow" spare sewup under their saddle held in place with a toe clip strap...lol those were the days...

Good luck and enjoy the experience...
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Old 01-24-24, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai Winters
Sewups give the most amazing ride...so supple, so sure footed...such a f'ing pain in the arse to repair when you puncture a brand new Vittoria Corsa CX...lol I don't even know if they still offer this model but it was my all time favorite to race on...120psi and 21mm in a crit...nothing like it back in the '80's when we knew no better lol.
I tried Continental 250 Sprinters and they were crazy fast but just didn't have the supple feel of the Corsas.
I also had a pair of Vittoria "silk" sewups...my goodness I've never ridden a tire that felt so supple and had the most grip I've ever felt leaning into a fast turn in a crit. But holy moly were they expensive.
I still remember how much fun it was to un-sew the section of tire where I was 'sure' the puncture was only to realize it was ten inches away which meant more cutting, patching then resewing the tire back together and gluing the base tape back on.
I had my "race wheels" for just races and a pair of training wheels which were heavier duty and used a less expensive tire and everyone had a cheap "Swallow" spare sewup under their saddle held in place with a toe clip strap...lol those were the days...

Good luck and enjoy the experience...
I will, and thank you for sharing yours!
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Old 01-24-24, 05:02 PM
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here is the simplest and easy follow instructions on gluing tubulars that I have found https://www.yellowjersey.org/frontwheel.html

beyond that brass wheel in drill for removing the red glue (wear eye protection)
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Old 01-24-24, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Aardwolf
You might want to consider using sealant - I use 1oz of Orange Seal in Vittoria Rubino 28mm.
Others might say don't do it, but I've had no problems.

I also use Jantex tape insted of glue, but that's a whole different discussion.

I installed sealant in tubular tires as a precaution, in the past. On about 4 bikes. 3 of the 8 tires developed valve issues. Now I carry the sealant as a roadside repair item. Also have a small supply of spare valve cores.

Tape makes it easier to seat the tubular to avoid lumps/bumps and get the tire centered - over gluing.

A tub of Mastik might prove to be a lifetime supply - unless running 10 or more tubular shod bikes. Mine lasted several years.
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Old 01-24-24, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
here is the simplest and easy follow instructions on gluing tubulars that I have found https://www.yellowjersey.org/frontwheel.html

beyond that brass wheel in drill for removing the red glue (wear eye protection)
according to that site, he does it all on the same day. He cleans the rims, applies the cement to both the base tape and the rim, waits 10 minutes for it to set up and then he mounts the tire. That what it seems. Can anyone confirm? Is this guy still alive? A lot of the links are dead like to the FAQ that would be nice to read. It would be nice to do it all on one day. The can of glue says to clean the wheel with solvent whatever that means, no particular solvent so could be water for all I know, then sand the wheel, no sandpaper grit is specified, then apply glue to the rim and the tape and let it dry for 24 hours. Then the next day apply glue only to the rim and then mount the tire.
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Old 01-24-24, 11:26 PM
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So today I got as far as dyeing the base tape black so I would have true blackwalls instead of seeing 1/4 " of blonde base tape as my sidewall. It didnt look bad, in fact I rather liked it a lot but it wasnt what I had been envisioning in my mind so I pressed on toward the goal.

I also scraped all the old glue off the rims, sanded them with 220 and wiped them down with mineral spirits.

Tomorrow I was planning to apply the glue to the rim and the base tape and then let it dry 24 hours per intstructions on the can but I just read an article by an expert who seems to do it all at once. Apply glue to base tape and rim, let it setup for 10 minutes and then put the tire on. So not sure what path I will take tomorrow.

I hope the black dye doesnt interfere with the bonding of the base tape to the rim.

I must confess I did take the bike for a short and slow ride with unglued tires today. Looking forward to a successful gluing so I can go full power on tubulars and see what Ive been missing out on all my life.

Then i will continue the restoration of the Nashbar Race SIS and get it ready for the final reveal on this forum.
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Old 01-24-24, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
Tubasti in my hair...
I always figured the real reason we shaved our legs was to avoid getting a tangle of sew-up glue there.
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Old 01-25-24, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by MooneyBloke
I always figured the real reason we shaved our legs was to avoid getting a tangle of sew-up glue there.
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Old 01-25-24, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by qcpmsame
Zip ties used to hold down the tubular on each side of the presta valve stem. Keeps the surfaces in contact during the curing of the cement, if this area wont pull down and stay put. Not using them full circumference of the wheel.

Even with pulling the tire in place starting at the stem, on each side, this spot seems to not want to settle in completely. YMMV. Just what works for me.

Bill
Thanks for clarifying. Makes sense if that is an issue.

Mileage varies (;-).
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Old 01-25-24, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by obuckler
Thanks for clarifying. Makes sense if that is an issue.

Mileage varies (;-).
It was using some zip ties that I had stockpiled, for moto-x racing my son and I did for years. The knurled nut would not pull the casing to contact the rim, resulting in the bump. 🤭

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Old 01-25-24, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai Winters
I still remember how much fun it was to un-sew the section of tire where I was 'sure' the puncture was only to realize it was ten inches away which meant more cutting, patching then resewing the tire back together and gluing the base tape back on.
Honest question from someone whos never used sew-ups: How are you able to sew the casing back up without puncturing the tube with the needle?
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Old 01-25-24, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Honest question from someone whos never used sew-ups: How are you able to sew the casing back up without puncturing the tube with the needle?
I don't recall struggling with it, but I probably just pushed the tube down while stitching it up.
To be honest, I have more trouble stuffing an inner tube in a clincher while mounting the clincher... but my clinchers fit really tight on my old rims. The tubes in sew-ups tend to be pretty thin and not take up much space.

The other "secret" is to not unstitch much of the sew-up. You only need just enough of a gap to pull the tube out and patch it.
This is a photo of my last puncture, which was a real "snake bite" puncture on a brand new Conti tire. It looks like I might have opened it up about an inch.




Your Needlework May Vary

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Old 01-25-24, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
I don't recall struggling with it, but I probably just pushed the tube down while stitching it up.
To be honest, I have more trouble stuffing an inner tube in a clincher while mounting the clincher... but my clinchers fit really tight on my old rims. The tubes in sew-ups tend to be pretty thin and not take up much space.

The other "secret" is to not unstitch much of the sew-up. You only need just enough of a gap to pull the tube out and patch it.
This is a photo of my last puncture, which was a real "snake bite" puncture on a brand new Conti tire. It looks like I might have opened it up about an inch.




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Thanks Steve. I think I see what you meanas long as the tube is visible through the seam. What about the last stitch or three where you cant see the tube? Would a surgeons curved needle be useful?
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Old 01-25-24, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Thanks Steve. I think I see what you meanas long as the tube is visible through the seam. What about the last stitch or three where you cant see the tube? Would a surgeons curved needle be useful?
As with my earlier comment, I don't recall it being an issue. I think I just hold the tube away from the opening... i.e. with my left hand that is holding the tire, I've got the tube shoved to the back and am holding it pinched in that position.

As for needles, I think curved needles are used for sails and such too. If nothing else, it's probably cheaper than stuff sold for surgery.
I've always used the Velox tubular patch kit, which comes with the heavy thread, a suitable needle, thimble, thin patches and glue. Amazingly, they are still being made!

Steve in Peoria
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Old 01-25-24, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Honest question from someone whos never used sew-ups: How are you able to sew the casing back up without puncturing the tube with the needle?
It's a good question.
It's not easy but I was taught to sew when I was a little kid so it was not very hard for me. It does take care and patience and a good needle with the proper thread.
If you're careful it's not too hard.
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Old 01-25-24, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
As with my earlier comment, I don't recall it being an issue. I think I just hold the tube away from the opening... i.e. with my left hand that is holding the tire, I've got the tube shoved to the back and am holding it pinched in that position.

As for needles, I think curved needles are used for sails and such too. If nothing else, it's probably cheaper than stuff sold for surgery.
I've always used the Velox tubular patch kit, which comes with the heavy thread, a suitable needle, thimble, thin patches and glue. Amazingly, they are still being made!

Steve in Peoria
45 years ago, tubulars had an inside fabric strip that helped, that had to be cut free on one side to access the tube.
A bent Needle, or a curved needle and if one was deftly skilled a speed stitcher sewing awl could make quick work.
big issue was ghost bubbles, a small leak where the air escaped a distance from the actual puncture.

there was a fellow who would ride around and pick up then return tubulars patched. Reasonable for a quality seta tire, he could also do an inlay where a width of the diagonal thread casing was replaced all across, including under the tread. $5.50, a deal considering it was saving a $20.+ tire.
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Old 01-25-24, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
according to that site, he does it all on the same day. He cleans the rims, applies the cement to both the base tape and the rim, waits 10 minutes for it to set up and then he mounts the tire. That what it seems. Can anyone confirm? Is this guy still alive? A lot of the links are dead like to the FAQ that would be nice to read. It would be nice to do it all on one day. The can of glue says to clean the wheel with solvent whatever that means, no particular solvent so could be water for all I know, then sand the wheel, no sandpaper grit is specified, then apply glue to the rim and the tape and let it dry for 24 hours. Then the next day apply glue only to the rim and then mount the tire.
YJ site is ancient WYSIWYG and Andrew's style. Not joking here.. ;-\

I've often done speed glue up and go ride. Long as you restrain and not do stupid joe wannabe crit racer stunts.

For the cyclo-X running FMB 32's nice and plushy lower psi, a medium tacky glue up is perfect. Never, ever rolled one off.

Not into sealants for fresh and good inner tubes. For slow flat, when back at home base, that's when I'd hit with whatever dose of sealant is on hand. Vitt pit stop or Stan's. Don't use for the top end tubulars that have latex tubes.
(edit for auto typo entrants)

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Old 01-25-24, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chain_whipped
YJ site is ancient WYSIWYG and Andrew's style. Not joking here.. ;-\

I've often done speed glue up and go ride. Long as you restrain and not do stupid joe wannabe crit racer stunts.

For the cyclo-X running FMB 32's nice and plushy lower psi, a medium tacky glue up is perfect. Never, ever rolled one off.

Not into sealants for fresh and good inner tubes. For slow flat, when back at home base, that's when I'd hit with whatever dose of sealant is on hand. Vitt pit stop or Stan's. Don't use for the top end tubulars that have latex tubes.
(edit for auto typo entrants)
It would be nice to read a report on experimenting with glues and glue times, various processes, waiting , not waiting, multiple layers vs single layers etc etc. Not sure how to test it without putting someone at risk. Have to have some kind of tension gage and test the tire with lateral tension and top to bottom tension and note the readings when the glue lets go.

Today I went out there and I applied one layer of glue to the tape and one layer of glue to the rim. Tomorrow I plan to put one layer of glue on the rim and then wait 10 minutes and mount the tire. Hopefully I will be riding tomorrow without bulges, bumps, or separations.
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Old 01-25-24, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
45 years ago, tubulars had an inside fabric strip that helped, that had to be cut free on one side to access the tube.
I remember those! No idea if it did anything, but probably made it easier to keep the tube out of the stitching. I wonder if it was needed for the latex tubes? It's been a while since I've seen an actual latex tube in a sew-up!

Originally Posted by repechage
big issue was ghost bubbles, a small leak where the air escaped a distance from the actual puncture.
The pinch flat with the snake-bite puncture in the pic above was an interesting challenge for me. There were no holes in the tread, so no hints as to where the puncture was. I had to pinch off the tire like you'd bend a garden hose to cut off the water flow. It was a gradual process to narrow down the location, but not the worst thing to do.

The issue of air leaking out of a spot is similar, but I at least knew that I pinch flatted. I can imagine being suckered into opening the tire up at the wrong spot if you just assumed that the leak was where the hole was. I don't suppose you'd do that more than once, though.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 01-26-24, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
I remember those! No idea if it did anything, but probably made it easier to keep the tube out of the stitching. I wonder if it was needed for the latex tubes? It's been a while since I've seen an actual latex tube in a sew-up!
Yeah, it was either to make the stitching safer at the factory, or keep the tube from rubbing on the stitching in use. It had to be cut away if you wanted to patch and re-sew.

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Old 01-26-24, 10:37 AM
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I think it was around 1983 when the Avocet FastGrips came along in a size 700X20 and 700X18 , with the flexible bead and the little rubber aero transition to the rim and 120 Psi rating , Total Game Changer. Bye Bye tubulars.

Now , Im thinking of getting back into tubulars for use on my 73' Colnago , Maybe just one set of GP4's.

Lots of good info given here , Good Luck on the mounting experience !
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Old 01-26-24, 11:07 AM
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No one seemed to mention that you reuse the holes from the thread you removed to sew the tire back up. You dont make new holes.
Regarding glue, the many tires I glued over the years were glued in one day. Apply a sufficient amount of glue to the rim, apply a very thin layer to the base tape on the tire, then mount the tire. Clean up any glue mess with lacquer thinner. If you needed to remount the tire after a puncture repair I would wipe the old glue with a rag of lacquer thinner, allow the glue to soften and mount the tire. Never had a tire roll, even on the track. The majority of the tires I saw roll during competition were mounted with tape.
just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-26-24, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Chain smoker
No one seemed to mention that you reuse the holes from the thread you removed to sew the tire back up. You dont make new holes.
Regarding glue, the many tires I glued over the years were glued in one day. Apply a sufficient amount of glue to the rim, apply a very thin layer to the base tape on the tire, then mount the tire. Clean up any glue mess with lacquer thinner. If you needed to remount the tire after a puncture repair I would wipe the old glue with a rag of lacquer thinner, allow the glue to soften and mount the tire. Never had a tire roll, even on the track. The majority of the tires I saw roll during competition were mounted with tape.
just my 2 cents.
that was what my gut was telling me but all the vids said layers with a day drying between.

Did you then ride the bike right away also or wait a while?

Tires are mounted and seem to be ok. Stems nice and straight. Not.much mess. Cleaning up now, after that will take it down to the bike path. Hopefully they stay on.
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Old 01-26-24, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
No more glue will come off with the hand brass brush. I could use a brass wire wheel on the bench grinder or cordless drill if you are sure it wont hurt the anodized wheels?.
That's what I've done when going from glue to tape, to get a clean surface for the tape. It's not strictly necessary if you're continuing to use glue, at least not until the old glue gets egregiously thick.
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