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Installing tubulars today for the first time. Please advise.

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Installing tubulars today for the first time. Please advise.

Old 01-23-24, 01:41 PM
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Installing tubulars today for the first time. Please advise.

2 Vittoria Rally black wall arrived today along with a can of Vittoria Mastic One. I have removed the old tire(like original from 1986) and brushed the wheels with a brass brush to remove any loose residue.

Remaining is some hard red adhesive that seems impervious to plastic chisels and fingernails. Is it critical that this be removed or will it give the new glue something to bite on to?

Thanks



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Old 01-23-24, 01:45 PM
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That looks like the old "Clement" red tubular glue. That red stuff usually dried hard like that. I think you could leave it since the coat is not that heavy. And, yes your idea that it might give the glue something to grip onto is worth trying.
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Old 01-23-24, 02:25 PM
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Get the tire on the rim BEFORE any mastik. Pump it up hard, and walk away for a day or 2. Then pop it off, do your glue thing and presto. Thank me later.
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Old 01-23-24, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Erzulis Boat
Get the tire on the rim BEFORE any mastik. Pump it up hard, and walk away for a day or 2. Then pop it off, do your glue thing and presto. Thank me later.
pump it up hard? like 100psi?
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Old 01-23-24, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
pump it up hard? like 100psi?
Yes
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Old 01-23-24, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
pump it up hard? like 100psi?
Yes, you'll want to "stretch" it a bit before trying to mount it.
Once mounted and before glue dries, spin wheel to be sure tire is centered. Adjust this way and that until centered.
I found tubulars to be more trouble than they were worth for my type of riding and switched to clinchers. Again, for my type of riding! Good luck and you're developing a new skill!
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Old 01-23-24, 03:57 PM
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You could get more aggressive on wire brushing off that residue but also could just leave it. For this one time I personally would remove all and start fresh. That's really aged dry glue of no benefit. But if were feeling some tack and or good rough holding, it would benefit in friction grippage to the tubular base tape.

Glue- Put a light layer on both the rims and mating surface of the tubular. Let it set up and get a tackiness. 15 - 30 minutes is good.

You also have a related question on another thread. Answer: Yes- the 28" as designated on the sidewall correlates to the 700c with Vittoria brand.

Prestretch somewhat helps but not necessary with that particular tubular. Glue as noted above, put it on and inflate to a low psi. Center it by lifting a small section at a time and let go as if a rubber band. Rotate and work it using that technique. Take visual note the rim edge relative to base tape/ sidewall. That step complete, inflate to 100psi. Let it set overnight. Fine tune psi to your comfort and within makers safety inflation range.

Tackle it a first go and you'll be rewarded. Changing out will become easy quick, no big ordeal or mystery. I sometimes regret when one wants to swap out classic tubular rims for clincher.
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Old 01-23-24, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by chain_whipped
You could get more aggressive on wire brushing off that residue but also could just leave it. For this one time I personally would remove all and start fresh. That's really aged dry glue of no benefit. But if were feeling some tack and or good rough holding, it would benefit in friction grippage to the tubular base tape.

Glue- Put a light layer on both the rims and mating surface of the tubular. Let it set up and get a tackiness. 15 - 30 minutes is good.

You also have a related question on another thread. Answer: Yes- the 28" as designated on the sidewall correlates to the 700c with Vittoria brand.

Prestretch somewhat helps but not necessary with that particular tubular. Glue as noted above, put it on and inflate to a low psi. Center it by lifting a small section at a time and let go as if a rubber band. Rotate and work it using that technique. Take visual note the rim edge relative to base tape/ sidewall. That step complete, inflate to 100psi. Let it set overnight. Fine tune psi to your comfort and within makers safety inflation range.

Tackle it a first go and you'll be rewarded. Changing out will become easy quick, no big ordeal or mystery. I sometimes regret when one wants to swap out classic tubular rims for clincher.
thank you for your thoughtful response. No more glue will come off with the hand brass brush. I could use a brass wire wheel on the bench grinder or cordless drill if you are sure it wont hurt the anodized wheels?

I did get one of the tires on now and I had to use zip ties to hold it in place while I pulled it on with my two hands. It seemed so small at first I was sure it wasnt the right size. Im glad I have my bikeforum family to refer to in uncertain times like these.

No i definitely want the tubulars. I rode on the old ones and it was amazing and I only went a short distance. It feels totally different than any bike I have ever ridden. Its like there is no rolling resistance. Feels like im hovering above the groun on a hover board.

Its nice to know I can do this all in one day and dont need to put two layers letting it dry 48 hours each layer. Ive read and watched video where it takes a week to mount tubular tires.

I am going to pre stretch these tires and then tomorrow I will install them. The day after I should be able to finally ride this bike.
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Old 01-23-24, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
thank you for your thoughtful response. No more glue will come off with the hand brass brush. I could use a brass wire wheel on the bench grinder or cordless drill if you are sure it wont hurt the anodized wheels?

I did get one of the tires on now and I had to use zip ties to hold it in place while I pulled it on with my two hands. It seemed so small at first I was sure it wasnt the right size. Im glad I have my bikeforum family to refer to in uncertain times like these.

No i definitely want the tubulars. I rode on the old ones and it was amazing and I only went a short distance. It feels totally different than any bike I have ever ridden. Its like there is no rolling resistance. Feels like im hovering above the groun on a hover board.

Its nice to know I can do this all in one day and dont need to put two layers letting it dry 48 hours each layer. Ive read and watched video where it takes a week to mount tubular tires.

I am going to pre stretch these tires and then tomorrow I will install them. The day after I should be able to finally ride this bike.
When you do the 'glued' install, use your truing stand to help align the tire and check for roundness. When you stretch it on, certain parts of the tire may stretch more than other areas. Push/pull as need to get it round and straight, (as best as the quality of the tire allows).
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Old 01-23-24, 04:36 PM
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Pro tip, and actually mean Pro! Professional cyclists would save old worn out tubular rims (rims only) to get tubulars pre-stretched. If you can score some castaway tubular rim, you can pre-stretch some in advance without using a full wheel. Remember, you have to have a minimum of 3 tubulars for a bicycle, and 2 if you have a unicycle Carry a spare!
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Old 01-23-24, 05:15 PM
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I’ve run the Vittoria Rally tubs on both mid-80’s bikes I built up. Medici Pro Strada and Tomassini Prestige, both using MAVIC GP-4 rims. I found that the tip on installing unglued, and pumped up to 110 psi, leaving them for a day to stretch makes the glue installation much easier. Old rim, as advised above is a great help. I kept an old rim just for this.

I did mount tubs up with some old dry adhesive left in place, with no issues such as roll-off or demounting.

But, this last time new tires were mounted on both bikes I took the time and effort to completely clean the rims of all built up adhesive, using Goof Off commercial strength cleaner. After watching sub-contractors clean HVAC ducts, existing wall/structure and most anything they had to have coatings applied to, on projects I oversaw as an on-site engineer.

Been riding tubs since 1979, back in the days of those rainbow hued tubes of Tubasti. For road bikes they have given me a smooth, grippy ride the entire time. Biggest gripe I had was the mess I made as a rookie tubular user, but taking my time and applying the adhesive to both the tub and the rim as well as in mounting them, got even this eye poker of a task under control.

Letting the adhesive dry first, then installing the tire works well for me. YMMV, etc. Using zip ties to keep things where they should be as the assembled tire/wheel has time to set has eliminated those annoying lumps and bumps that can drive you bats.

Apologies for the length, best wishes on getting things done to your satisfaction,

Bill

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Old 01-23-24, 05:18 PM
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Totally Tubular

Extensive sticky on tubulars here
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Old 01-23-24, 05:27 PM
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You might want to consider using sealant - I use 1oz of Orange Seal in Vittoria Rubino 28mm.
Others might say don't do it, but I've had no problems.

I also use Jantex tape insted of glue, but that's a whole different discussion.
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Old 01-23-24, 05:30 PM
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Tubulars stretch just fine on clincher rims... without any mess.
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Old 01-23-24, 10:16 PM
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When I picked up a pair of anodized GL330s with that dry red glue, I chipped it off with an old small flat bladed screwdriver and there was no harm done to the rims. Two thin coats of Mastic on a clean rim — the second coat goes on just before mounting. You must stretch the tire as you go down each side away from the valve. If it doesn’t work without stopping to put zip ties on, start over from the valve and stretch from the very beginning outward, then down, then pick it up for the last part with your thumbs like a clincher. Be strong and smooth like the Continental Guy💪🏻
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Old 01-24-24, 03:53 AM
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First time you do it will probably be be messy.
Wear gloves.
This is what I do. Stretch the tub. It's easier that way. Glue and install the tyre. That is self explanatory. Get it fairly straight.
Remove any stray glue from the braking surface. Do that now. Because it is more difficult to if you use the brakes on the glue. Then pump it quite soft but enough to ride. Then ride the bike gently to square of the tyres on the rim. A few meters will do.
Inflate correctly and ride normally.
Remember you have already been ridden on unglued tubulars and it was OK.
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Old 01-24-24, 06:57 AM
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I think all postings so far have been extensive and helpful, and i have nothing of note to add. In times of frustration, you may wanna google the "Tubasti" poem by Aldo Ross!

Let it be a comfort to you that, with the invention of Tubeless tires and Challenge(R)'s contribution to it, mounting a new tubular is no longer the hardest or messiest job ever on a bike!
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Old 01-24-24, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Aardwolf
You might want to consider using sealant - I use 1oz of Orange Seal in Vittoria Rubino 28mm.
Others might say don't do it, but I've had no problems.

I also use Jantex tape insted of glue, but that's a whole different discussion.
do you put it in the tire during installation or through the valve stem after they are installed?
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Old 01-24-24, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by martl
I think all postings so far have been extensive and helpful, and i have nothing of note to add. In times of frustration, you may wanna google the "Tubasti" poem by Aldo Ross!

Let it be a comfort to you that, with the invention of Tubeless tires and Challenge(R)'s contribution to it, mounting a new tubular is no longer the hardest or messiest job ever on a bike!
Tubasti

Tubasti on the sidewalls
Tubasti on the spokes
Tubasti on my workbench
Sticking to the nuts and bolts

Tubasti on my fingers
Tubasti on my arms
Tubasti on my chin and cheeks
I hope it won’t cause harm

Tubasti on the light switch
Tubasti on the cat
Tubasti on my shoes and socks
And on my car’s floor mat

Tubasti on the carpet
Tubasti in my hair
I tried to glue just one damn tire
Now Tubasti’s everywhere!

- Aldo Ross
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Old 01-24-24, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
do you put it in the tire during installation or through the valve stem after they are installed?
Install as normal then remove valve core and install 1oz of sealant any time later.
Vittoria Rubino have removable cores, I'm guessing Rally do too.

Instructions say add more sealant after 3 months, but I've got 1 year before it started flatting.
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Old 01-24-24, 10:21 AM
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Everyone has their own way of doing things…but I am having a hard time envisioning how you can mount a tire AND need to use zip ties?

There must be tons of video showing the procedure.

Body weight from top of rim set on your shoes/toes … rim against your leg vertical… stretch evenly down both sides keeping valve straight, as close to bottom as you can…not letting go of rim/tire, pick up rim and hold it horizontal, then push with both thumbs to lever it on… if that’s undoable then you might not have pre-stretched long enough on a dry rim. Once tire is on center it all up.

Hard to describe. Finding a video best.
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Old 01-24-24, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Erzulis Boat
Pro tip, and actually mean Pro! Professional cyclists would save old worn out tubular rims (rims only) to get tubulars pre-stretched. ....
well, more than just pro cyclists did this. It was not uncommon at all.
However, that was more than a few decades ago, and spare rims were not hard to get.
Stretching tires definitely makes a difference!

Steve in Peoria
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Old 01-24-24, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
well, more than just pro cyclists did this. It was not uncommon at all.
However, that was more than a few decades ago, and spare rims were not hard to get.
Stretching tires definitely makes a difference!

Steve in Peoria
tires have been on the wheels all night and inflated to 100psi. Im going to remove them, clean the wheels and then glue them on. Wish me luck friends.
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Old 01-24-24, 10:39 AM
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BikePower I follow the instructions on the glue can. Worked out great..
Brass wire wheel will not impact the surface of the rim.
I had fun with this rim!
P1030574 on Flickr
P1030577 on Flickr

I use gloves and dip my finger in the glue and spread on the tube base. First I set up the tube to make it easy by inflating enough to get this
VitCorsaG23x700 on Flickr

If you have a truing stand, it helps to fix the wheel to easily adjust tread alignment. Or, use the center bolt on your brake caliper to align the tread, if you are using single pivot.
Vittoria G+ 30x28 b b, on Flickr

You can use new rims for mounting spares and new tires too.
PXL_20220825_135925076[1] on Flickr
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Old 01-24-24, 02:23 PM
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Zip ties used to hold down the tubular on each side of the presta valve stem. Keeps the surfaces in contact during the curing of the cement, if this area won’t pull down and stay put. Not using them full circumference of the wheel.

Even with pulling the tire in place starting at the stem, on each side, this spot seems to not want to settle in completely. YMMV. Just what works for me.

Bill
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