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Nuovo Record RD rebuild questions

Old 01-26-24, 05:31 PM
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It was on my Trek 770 bike that was a factory build for the team members. In storage with six other bikes when an arson fire happened. In all about 11K in damaged bikes, that fortunately was covered by my homeowners policy. Now I am trying to rehab some of the damage. It looks rough, but you have before picture. Now to get the after picture. Yellow, orange, or red pulleys? Smiles, MH
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Old 01-26-24, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
OK, My big Q was where to insert the short end of the spring. !
the short end of the spring goes into a hole inside the parallelogram, in the upper pivot area

look at the drawing I shared above, you will see it

/markp
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Old 01-26-24, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
OK, My big Q was where to insert the short end of the spring. !
the short end of the spring goes into a hole inside the parallelogram, in the upper pivot area

look at the drawing I shared above, you will see it

/markp
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Old 01-26-24, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk
My week end project:

Smiles, MH
!alarma! A friend had an arson fire restoration, all the plastics were melted. The plastic bushing was a goner, and the jockey cage spring was limp.
may you have better luck, his was before CPSC, so no protection bells. (Which changed the length of the adjuster springs a wee bit)
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Old 01-26-24, 09:08 PM
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I normally don't keep the bells since I seriously doubt that in a crash, I will be hurt by an adjuster screw. I suspect the results of my body meeting the earth will be more damaging! And I have plenty of scraped up levers to show that. As is normally the way things work here there are a few donor parts to help in the restore. Should this be moved to a separate thread? Smiles, MH
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Old 01-27-24, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgie
As Mad Honk said, install the spring with the pusher end outside the paralellogram. I find it easy enough to snap it into its working position by hand.

The previous Record (steel/bronze) mech, and the Gran Sport before it, had a spring that was intended to be easily popped out tool-free. The idea was, if your cable breaks, you can still ride the bike in any gear, if you pop the spring out. Then it'll just follow under whatever gear you put it in. I've even been able to shift while riding, by reaching back with my toe (pointy toe old-fashioned cycling shoes)



They took away that feature for NR and SR, but only the tool-free aspect. You can still pop the spring out, but not with just fingers.

Zeus kept that feature for their Campy-clone rear mechs long after Campy had taken it away.
Wow, that's a cool bit of info!
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Old 01-27-24, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mpetry912
the short end of the spring goes into a hole inside the parallelogram, in the upper pivot area

look at the drawing I shared above, you will see it

/markp
Here is a picture of the body by itself.

This is the part of the body where the spring is anchored.

When you look inside the body you can see where it anchors. The coiled part fits in this area and the grub bolt holds the spring in place.
HTH, MH
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Old 01-27-24, 02:35 PM
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Ok you got to see the before picture. This morning was some cleaning and then re-assembly.

All apart and cleaned up.

Back together and all blinged up.
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Old 02-05-24, 09:42 AM
  #34  
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I started assembling stuff, and this AM the NR RD's, starting with the one photo'ed below. Wow, they look great in my hand, but these modern cell phone cameras catch a lot of details and there are small flaws that are glaring in the photos but less so "in real life".

The two springs that surround/retain the limit screws are a tiny bit different; one the longer and smaller diameter, one is shorter and fatter. Which one goes where?

For the parallelogram pivots, I tried the graphite lock lube idea, and I think the unit moves more freely now. But that stuff is messy!

Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Here is a picture of the body by itself. This is the part of the body where the spring is anchored. When you look inside the body you can see where it anchors. The coiled part fits in this area and the grub bolt holds the spring in place.
HTH, MH
Originally Posted by mpetry912
the short end of the spring goes into a hole inside the parallelogram, in the upper pivot area look at the drawing I shared above, you will see it
That helped a lot and the spring went right in... no trouble at all. Whew!

Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Tiger, I use Chaser Tech sealed bearing pulleys that are hand fitted and ground to correct width spacing. They can be ordered with spacers for 5mm bolts and need to be shimmed for correct spacing in the cage. HTH, (or I can post pics of the process) MH
I am very curious! I got the Chaser pulleys and each pair comes with 16 bushing! OK, the larger hole diameter is obvious (and I do have a SunTour to do and I suspect this will be handy) and eventually noticed there are two different flange thicknesses. Uh, with the thicker-flanged bushing, 10mm pulley assembly; the OEM Campsy pulley assemblies are 11mm. Is this OK? Or to I need to source a bunch of 0.5mm washers?

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Old 02-05-24, 10:52 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
I started assembling stuff, and this AM the NR RD's, starting with the one photo'ed below. Wow, they look great in my hand, but these modern cell phone cameras catch a lot of details and there are small flaws that are glaring in the photos but less so "in real life".

The two springs that surround/retain the limit screws are a tiny bit different; one the longer and smaller diameter, one is shorter and fatter. Which one goes where?

For the parallelogram pivots, I tried the graphite lock lube idea, and I think the unit moves more freely now. But that stuff is messy!




That helped a lot and the spring went right in... no trouble at all. Whew!



I am very curious! I got the Chaser pulleys and each pair comes with 16 bushing! OK, the larger hole diameter is obvious (and I do have a SunTour to do and I suspect this will be handy) and eventually noticed there are two different flange thicknesses. Uh, with the thicker-flanged bushing, 10mm pulley assembly; the OEM Campsy pulley assemblies are 11mm. Is this OK? Or to I need to source a bunch of 0.5mm washers?

Tiger,
You have the springs for the adjustors in the right place. The spacers are now nylon ledge washers, and the old ones were aluminum ledge washers, and they did come with extra steel spacer washers. With the new ledge washers being nylon you only need to remove the bushing portion and you will have the correct spacer washer to shim out the cage plate and will likely only need to be on the inner side to get to the 11mm for the chain to run through the cage. Pictures attached:

The new version of the bushing spacers as they come out of the mold.

This is the bushing ledge washer from the side view. Note the step down for the bushing portion of the washer.

This is the side view of a ledge washer that has had the bushing portion shaved off, It is now a spacer washer (1mm thick) that can be used to get the correct cage plate spacing.
HTH, Smiles, MH
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Old 02-05-24, 11:18 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Tiger, You have the springs for the adjustors in the right place.
Thanks. Since last post, I assembled the other NR -- now I need to check to see if I did them both the same way!

Originally Posted by Mad Honk
The spacers are now nylon ledge washers, and the old ones were aluminum ledge washers, and they did come with extra steel spacer washers. With the new ledge washers being nylon you only need to remove the bushing portion and you will have the correct spacer washer to shim out the cage plate and will likely only need to be on the inner side to get to the 11mm for the chain to run through the cage. Pictures attached:
The new version of the bushing spacers as they come out of the mold.
This is the bushing ledge washer from the side view. Note the step down for the bushing portion of the washer.
This is the side view of a ledge washer that has had the bushing portion shaved off, It is now a spacer washer (1mm thick) that can be used to get the correct cage plate spacing.
Brilliant! Uh, I saw 10mm on the new, 11mm on the old; using a 1mm washer, do I put one on one side only? Or two spacers and end up at 12mm? Hmm, or swap out to using the thinner bushings/washers and then build up from there? By the way, once the bushings are pressed in, they are a bear to pry back out!
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Old 02-05-24, 02:01 PM
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In parallel, I just put a set of Chaser pulleys on my Ď72..Glad to know they have the @Mad Honk Seal of Approval (TM)!
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Old 02-05-24, 05:16 PM
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Tiger,
I put the 1mm spacer next to the inner cage plate so there is a little more space on that side. It keeps the chain from rubbing on the inner plate from cross chaining. The inner plate is harder to find as a replacement part, so I give it more room.
Andy,
Yes, the seal team approval. Very Blingy! I hope you will like them. Smiles, MH
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Old 02-05-24, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Tiger,
I put the 1mm spacer next to the inner cage plate so there is a little more space on that side. It keeps the chain from rubbing on the inner plate from cross chaining. The inner plate is harder to find as a replacement part, so I give it more room.
Hmm, I thought it was close enough with the two thicker bushings but I may go back and add those.
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Old 02-05-24, 05:39 PM
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Andy, and Tiger,
The spacers are like a Delrin plastic and pretty hard to just file down, or even cut off. I put a dowel or bolt through the center and use a sanding belt to sand down to just the spacer size. You can also use steel washers, but since Chaser provided the extra bits It is easier to just cut them down to size. Smiles, MH
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Old 02-05-24, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Sure they're cracked, but not "dreaded." They will probably outlive you.
​​​​​​
I remember trying to continue using the two cracked pulleys on one of my Campy RDs for a build and yes, the still worked when I tested the gear changing while the bike was on the bike stand, but there was a definite slight jumping of the chain when it went over the cracked part of the pulleys. I'm sure the bike will ride OK with the cracked pulleys for many miles, but feeling that slight jump while on the road would even eventually bother me too much, so in the trash they went and replacements were found and installed.....
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Old 02-05-24, 05:58 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Chombi1
... a definite slight jumping of the chain when it went over the cracked part of the pulleys.
Never seen that. I guess ymmv.
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Old 02-05-24, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Never seen that. I guess ymmv.
I suspect the crack gets wide enough that it slightly widens the distance of the pulley teeth from each other where the crack is, so the chain does not fall in immedistely on to the pulley cog valleys as on other teeth on the pulley.
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Old 02-05-24, 06:42 PM
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Iím just reading this so Iím a bit late. Concerning the use of the walnut shell tumbler, Iíd leave that step out completely. It seems itís pushing walnut shell dust into your pivot points causing them to be fairly stiff. Those Iíve done have always flopped freely back and forth with the spring removed. I disassemble everything, clean in mineral spirits, buff with Simichrome to bring out a bit of shine (without removing the anodizing), then back in the mineral spirits to remove the residue.

This is the last one I restored.



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Old 02-05-24, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad L
Iím just reading this so Iím a bit late. Concerning the use of the walnut shell tumbler, Iíd leave that step out completely. It seems itís pushing walnut shell dust into your pivot points causing them to be fairly stiff. Those Iíve done have always flopped freely back and forth with the spring removed. I disassemble everything, clean in mineral spirits, buff with Simichrome to bring out a bit of shine (without removing the anodizing), then back in the mineral spirits to remove the residue.

This is the last one I restored.
Exactly this, no abrasive should driven into pivots that cannot be disassembled regardless of how anemic the abrasives are.

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Old 02-06-24, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Tiger, I put the 1mm spacer next to the inner cage plate so there is a little more space on that side. It keeps the chain from rubbing on the inner plate from cross chaining. The inner plate is harder to find as a replacement part, so I give it more room. Andy, Yes, the seal team approval. Very Blingy! I hope you will like them. Smiles, MH
Originally Posted by ascherer
Hmm, I thought it was close enough with the two thicker bushings but I may go back and add those.
OK, perhaps the spacing does not have be 100% symmetrical on both side of the pulley? Well, that simplifies things. The e-mails I am getting back from Chaser are mostly gibberish.

Originally Posted by Brad L
Iím just reading this so Iím a bit late. Concerning the use of the walnut shell tumbler, Iíd leave that step out completely. It seems itís pushing walnut shell dust into your pivot points causing them to be fairly stiff. Those Iíve done have always flopped freely back and forth with the spring removed. I disassemble everything, clean in mineral spirits, buff with Simichrome to bring out a bit of shine (without removing the anodizing), then back in the mineral spirits to remove the residue. This is the last one I restored.
Yours turned out prettier than the two I did which, admittedly, were not given much care.

I might agree on the walnut shells on the parallelogram body; it freed up via moving it back and forth a lot, but I would not have minded not needing that step.
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Old 02-07-24, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Tiger,
I put the 1mm spacer next to the inner cage plate so there is a little more space on that side. It keeps the chain from rubbing on the inner plate from cross chaining. The inner plate is harder to find as a replacement part, so I give it more room.
Just to be sure I understand: which plate is ďthe inner cage plateĒ? The one closer to the wheel or the one closer to the dropout?

PS: Iíve been tutoring my grandchildren via a Zoom like interface. Iíve become very aware about how imprecise our language can be at times.
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Old 02-07-24, 09:32 AM
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Prowler,
The cage plate that is attached to the derailleur body that has the tension spring inserted in it. HTH, Smiles, MH
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Old 02-07-24, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Prowler
Which is ďthe inner cage plateĒ?
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Old 02-07-24, 01:35 PM
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in the picture below, the inner cage plate is part # 815 / A on the far right

/markp

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