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Nuovo Record RD rebuild questions

Old 01-24-24, 09:52 AM
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Nuovo Record RD rebuild questions

On two of my winter projects, the derailleurs are NR's. If it matters, one pat-72 and one pat-73 so each one year "older" that the bikes they were on. All broken down as far as wrenches and screwdrivers will allow, ultrasonic cleaning on the loose parts, then vibratory tumbling w/walnut shells, then Blue Magic and then Wolfgang's sealant. So, moving towards reassembly.

(a) with all parts, especially springs, out -- the parallelograms have no play but perhaps a wee bit stiffer in action than I expected (well, they got better after some actuation to work out some residual walnut-shell debris). I wonder "how stiff is stiff" and is there a way, and particular with what product, some lubrication in those riveted pivots might be done?

(b) one RD has the dreaded cracked pulleys, and the other probably will eventually. What is the current best practice for replacement? I'd prefer a new product if anywhere near affordable, rather than looking on eBay for some obscure Suntour/Shimano/whatever RD just for parts.

FD's are next, I might have questions on those too. And I fear I am really going to hate getting the various springs back in place correctly!
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Old 01-24-24, 10:10 AM
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good questions. Of course deep clean everything and use a toothbrush to get the crud out.

as for lubricating of the pivots - you'll want something that can penetrate inside the pivot pin and the tunnel in the arm.

the parallelogram should move freely and return under spring tension.

Another thing - when you put the lower pivot together - Campagnolo used to ship these with a big blob of grease in the spring.

Also the 810/1a plastic bushing does get loose, and that can have an averse effect on shifting. Note not all models have this part, but if yours does, be careful not to crush the little keying tab when re-assembling.

I personally would not worry about the cracked pulleys unless you are prepping the bike for concours judging. They run fine. Replacements are available, including the Enduro Bearing pulleys.

repechage might have more to add here.

/markp

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Old 01-24-24, 10:38 AM
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Tiger,
I am doing NR rear derailleurs this week. I find that a small bit of oil will loosen the stiffness you are feeling. I use Tri-flow for this part of the rebuild. All threaded parts get a covering of light grease before re-assembly and then wiped off after installed. It give me a bit of reassurance that the parts will not seize un the aluminum body. Same light grease where to spring rides inside the body, and on all pivot points. I also grease the tension spring and inside of the spring body and especially where the threads of the grub screw go together.
I use Chaser Tech sealed bearing pulleys that are hand fitted and ground to correct width spacing. They can be ordered with spacers for 5mm bolts and need to be shimmed for correct spacing in the cage. HTH, (or I can post pics of the process) MH
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Old 01-24-24, 01:28 PM
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One RD has the dreaded cracked pulleys.
Sure they're cracked, but not "dreaded." They will probably outlive you.
​​​​​​
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Old 01-24-24, 01:57 PM
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Been there. You may find this helpful. When I disassembled mine, I did not pay attention to which hole the cage tension spring was in (step 7).

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Old 01-24-24, 02:01 PM
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I am unsure about the benefit of walnut shell tumbling with these anodized assemblies.
I do not know the particle size, hopefully not ready to muck things up.

assuming springs out, and adjusters out, the degradation of performance often comes from racking of the movement. If it is loose in “twist”
there is wear lurking.

from the description of the cleaning, I would really want to get as much lubricant into and around the pivot bushings. A graphite suspension lock lubricant would be my choice and that needs to be worked in by movement as much as possible. Then when the black is visible at the far side, introduce some more substantial oil. Lock lube often dries off leaving the graphite.

Very free movement but no slop is what I would want. With slop? Ask Jim Merz his price, he has tools. Will not be cheap. Most of these mechanisms are 50 years old now.
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Old 01-24-24, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mpetry912
good questions. Of course deep clean everything and use a toothbrush to get the crud out.
I am relatively confident on the cleaning; of course, now my hands ache more than a little.

Originally Posted by mpetry912
the parallelogram should move freely and return under spring tension.
I guess I can say that now -- I just want to maximize performance while the RD is off and disassembled. The return spring is a bit of a beast and overrides any internal friction IMHO.

Originally Posted by mpetry912
Another thing - when you put the lower pivot together - Campagnolo used to ship these with a big blob of grease in the spring.
Can do! Going through lot of grease (Park) on these projects; and, of course, no fun getting everything all pretty and polished, only to get globs of grease on them.

Originally Posted by mpetry912
Also the 810/1a plastic bushing does get loose, and that can have an averse effect on shifting. Note not all models have this part, but if yours does, be careful not to crush the little keying tab when re-assembling.

Both of these RD's have that bushing, thanks for the warning.

Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Tiger, I am doing NR rear derailleurs this week. I find that a small bit of oil will loosen the stiffness you are feeling. I use Tri-flow for this part of the rebuild. All threaded parts get a covering of light grease before re-assembly and then wiped off after installed. It give me a bit of reassurance that the parts will not seize un the aluminum body. Same light grease where to spring rides inside the body, and on all pivot points. I also grease the tension spring and inside of the spring body and especially where the threads of the grub screw go together.
Thanks, any advice and/or images welcome! I think the 98A spring may prove my nemesis. Hard to tell where the short end fits, and I foresee a battle to get it into place (although I've done NR's before).
Originally Posted by Mad Honk
I use Chaser Tech sealed bearing pulleys that are hand fitted and ground to correct width spacing. They can be ordered with spacers for 5mm bolts and need to be shimmed for correct spacing in the cage. HTH, (or I can post pics of the process) MH
I did a search, do you mean this particular product? PULLEYS If so, not all that expensive (and I think I'll be buying several sets!)

Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Sure they're cracked, but not "dreaded." They will probably outlive you. ​​​​​​
Like almost any other Campagnolo item. As I'm doing this for two friends, I am kinda planning on making the bikes bulletproof to a degree.

Originally Posted by ManekiNico
Been there. You may find this helpful. When I disassembled mine, I did not pay attention to which hole the cage tension spring was in (step 7).
Thanks -- cool image!

Originally Posted by repechage
I am unsure about the benefit of walnut shell tumbling with these anodized assemblies. I do not know the particle size, hopefully not ready to muck things up. from the description of the cleaning, I would really want to get as much lubricant into and around the pivot bushings. A graphite suspension lock lubricant would be my choice and that needs to be worked in by movement as much as possible. Then when the black is visible at the far side, introduce some more substantial oil. Lock lube often dries off leaving the graphite..
So far so good but a little post-tumbling detail cleanup was in order. Parts come out looking pretty good! I do have lock lubricant, maybe that and then Phil's Tenacious Oil?

Originally Posted by repechage
Very free movement but no slop is what I would want. With slop? Ask Jim Merz his price, he has tools. Will not be cheap. Most of these mechanisms are 50 years old now.
I thought he had left the forum a while back.
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Old 01-24-24, 04:17 PM
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Tiger,
I have a number to work on and they almost all look even worse than this first example, it came in pretty clean and will not take a lot of work. The second one is after cleaning with new jockeys on. Smiles, MH

This one is pretty clean for what it is. It still has not been serviced in along time, and it is due for a good going over.

When they are finished they are a bit brighter and with new jockeys they will run better. What you can't see is the machined down spacers for the inner side of the bearing race. The Chaser come with a 7mm diameter inner race hole and the spacers reduce the hole to 5mm which is the campy bolt spec.
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Old 01-24-24, 04:50 PM
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@tiger1964

Jim was gone for awhile, he's back now, for now it seems.

He's posted some very cool projects, even cooler than normal.

My 1946 Holdsworth Cyclone project
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Old 01-25-24, 08:23 AM
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Shimano pulleys have always worked just fine for me. Dirt cheap and last forever.

BITD I did have a set of Bullseye red pulleys on the red Grandis for the kool factor
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Old 01-25-24, 11:10 AM
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On a vintage Nuovo Record, any of you use the Shimano set with the Centeron pulley?
The 8sp Dura Ace duo match the old Brev. Int. or Italy in size. In my book, these DA ones represent the gold standard.
Unsure if the readily-available inexpensive versions utilize the same Centeron lateral movement.
Wondering if that lateral movement plays well with older 5 & 6 speed shifting.
At any rate, I just saw ten bucks shipped, on eBay, for the cheap ones. (Actually, $9ea for two sets.)
New Shimano Rear Derailleur Pulley Set TY05/15/20/22/30 CT92/MJ05 | eBay
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Old 01-25-24, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
Shimano pulleys have always worked just fine for me. Dirt cheap and last forever.
Hmm, I have a Dremel, so I can grind off the Shimano name.

Originally Posted by roadcrankr
On a vintage Nuovo Record, any of you use the Shimano set with the Centeron pulley? The 8sp Dura Ace duo match the old Brev. Int. or Italy in size. In my book, these DA ones represent the gold standard. Unsure if the readily-available inexpensive versions utilize the same Centeron lateral movement. Wondering if that lateral movement plays well with older 5 & 6 speed shifting. At any rate, I just saw ten bucks shipped, on eBay, for the cheap ones. (Actually, $9ea for two sets.) New Shimano Rear Derailleur Pulley Set TY05/15/20/22/30 CT92/MJ05 | eBay
If anyone replies "yeah, those work great", I think I might be tempted. The ones Mad Honk recommended look good too, but if I am buying several sets and I want to save money --
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Old 01-25-24, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by roadcrankr
Might be a little more play than the originals (or Suntour wheels), but they work fine. Vintage Campy wheels are too easy to procure, so I only use those new Shimano replacements on flips.
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Old 01-25-24, 01:25 PM
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Tiger,
Starting a NR today. Parts are disassembled and ready for a bath. And then new lube and re-assembly. Th threads for the adjuster bolts and grub screw will be chased and straightened out before re-assembly.



SR,
I normally toss the original jockeys in a bag until there are a bunch and then send them off to some unsuspecting victim. In your case these can be had for cost of shipping. I am going to use green for the replacement set on this rebuild.

Center of bearing set is 7mm and I always ask for the bushing set to get to the Campy 5mm bolt. The bushings will need a slight modification for a great fit, but it is only a few minutes to do.
Smiles, MH
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Old 01-25-24, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
Hmm, I have a Dremel, so I can grind off the Shimano name...
Yep... But other then my wall hanger ya certainly don't want to look at any of my bicycle Group Sets. I have got so many Knock Off, ChiCom, Generic, Off Label parts on my bicycles I should be ashamed... But I am not.

I do wish there were Cheap, Knock Off, Campy Pullys though. And come to think of it, all the Campy Rear Derailleurs I own have at least one cracked pulley. Go Figure...
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Old 01-25-24, 01:50 PM
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Maybe there's a way to fill the wheel cracks with something like black Sugru for aesthetics.
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Old 01-25-24, 04:50 PM
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Today's derailleur is finished with it's bath and has been lubricated and now just await the pulleys to be installed. I will do some aesthetic work and put them on first thing tomorrow. I was reminded that my vacation is only two more weeks of bike work and them back to a Golf Professional. Time seems to fly when you're on break. Smiles, MH

All cleaned up and ready for some green bling. Man was the solvent dirty from this one, and the cage plates had something on them that turned the aluminum black. So some extra time with a buffing wheel and polishing compound to bring them back.
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Old 01-26-24, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Today's derailleur is finished with its bath and has been lubricated and now just await the pulleys to be installed. I will do some aesthetic work and put them on first thing tomorrow. All cleaned up and ready for some green bling. Man was the solvent dirty from this one, and the cage plates had something on them that turned the aluminum black. So some extra time with a buffing wheel and polishing compound to bring them back.
Looking good! I took yesterday off as my hands ache and I still have 10 or so Solo cups full of small parts to get pretty before I can think about reassembly.

If you or anyone has hints on installing 98/A, especially the short end of the spring, I am curious!
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Old 01-26-24, 11:18 AM
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I thought the pulleys were supposed to be cracked.
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Old 01-26-24, 11:49 AM
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Tiger,
I install the spring with the main portion outside the body and use slight pressure on the spring to start the grub bolt. Pretty easy with a pair of slip joint pliers. Then a pair of thin nosed pliers to pull the spring back inside the body. I use Dualco grease guns here and I can pin-point the grease for the contact area between the spring tip and body. Or a small dab of grease on the tip of a thin blade screw driver. Smiles, MH

Dualco grease gun for easy lube in side the body.

All blinged up and ready for more service.
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Old 01-26-24, 03:46 PM
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As Mad Honk said, install the spring with the pusher end outside the paralellogram. I find it easy enough to snap it into its working position by hand.

The previous Record (steel/bronze) mech, and the Gran Sport before it, had a spring that was intended to be easily popped out tool-free. The idea was, if your cable breaks, you can still ride the bike in any gear, if you pop the spring out. Then it'll just follow under whatever gear you put it in. I've even been able to shift while riding, by reaching back with my toe (pointy toe old-fashioned cycling shoes)



They took away that feature for NR and SR, but only the tool-free aspect. You can still pop the spring out, but not with just fingers.

Zeus kept that feature for their Campy-clone rear mechs long after Campy had taken it away.
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Old 01-26-24, 04:11 PM
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My week end project:

Smiles, MH
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Old 01-26-24, 05:04 PM
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Shades of a stolen catalytic converter
cut off chain…
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Old 01-26-24, 05:06 PM
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OK, I ordered some of the sealed-bearing pulleys, the price seems so reasonable. I probably should have tried a set of the eBay Shimano's as a comparison.

Originally Posted by bulgie
As Mad Honk said, install the spring with the pusher end outside the paralellogram. I find it easy enough to snap it into its working position by hand. The previous Record (steel/bronze) mech, and the Gran Sport before it, had a spring that was intended to be easily popped out tool-free. The idea was, if your cable breaks, you can still ride the bike in any gear, if you pop the spring out. Then it'll just follow under whatever gear you put it in. I've even been able to shift while riding, by reaching back with my toe (pointy toe old-fashioned cycling shoes) They took away that feature for NR and SR, but only the tool-free aspect. You can still pop the spring out, but not with just fingers.
OK, I can do this. Indeed, I did it last year, too many projects ago. My big Q was where to insert the short end of the spring. Interesting you mention the Record and Gran Sport -- I have a project with one of the latter to deal with and, alas, my wife's bike with a Record was stolen.

Originally Posted by Mad Honk
My week end project:
Yikes -- I've seen photos of BF-109 aircraft dredged out of Dutch lakes after 80 years that didn't look that grungy. Like I said, I've led a sheltered life when it comes to bikes (Ride in the rain? Are you nuts? ) Wishing you luck on the re-hab!
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Old 01-26-24, 05:31 PM
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It was on my Trek 770 bike that was a factory build for the team members. In storage with six other bikes when an arson fire happened. In all about 11K in damaged bikes, that fortunately was covered by my homeowners policy. Now I am trying to rehab some of the damage. It looks rough, but you have before picture. Now to get the after picture. Yellow, orange, or red pulleys? Smiles, MH
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