Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Japanese built Olmo?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Japanese built Olmo?

Old 02-18-24, 05:25 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,287

Bikes: Cuevas Custom, Cimmaron, 1988 "Pinalized Rockma", 1984 Trek 510, Moulton custom touring, Raleigh Competition GS, Bridgestone Mb-2 & 3, 1980's Peugeot - US, City, & Canyon Express (6)

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1093 Post(s)
Liked 3,726 Times in 1,830 Posts
Japanese built Olmo?

Local ad, left me confused, anyone know about these? Columbus tubing, Campagnolo drop out with Japanese stamp? Seller claims Kashiwara built?
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ws...714402983.html


SoCaled is offline  
Old 02-18-24, 05:41 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,252
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3807 Post(s)
Liked 3,331 Times in 2,173 Posts
-----



...we should hear from Peter Brueggeman on this...


-----
juvela is offline  
Old 02-18-24, 05:43 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,484
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1639 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 828 Times in 537 Posts
What does that Japanese cartouche on the rear dropout say? Maybe someone can translate it?
__________________
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
Chombi1 is offline  
Old 02-18-24, 06:39 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,433

Bikes: You had me at rusty and Italian!!

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 566 Post(s)
Liked 1,047 Times in 542 Posts
Iím curious about that stamping too.
RustyJames is offline  
Old 02-18-24, 06:41 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 4,475
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1829 Post(s)
Liked 3,373 Times in 1,579 Posts
It's a shame that the seller doesn't include a photo of the serial number on the BB shell. I'd guess that a Japanese built Olmo would have a different format to the s/n.

The photos look very similar to my '82 Olmo Competition, other than the drop-out, of course.

edit: maybe it's the lighting, but.... that dropout with the Japanese stamping looks like it is painted black. The Olmo is painted gray or silver. The pic of the dropout with the Japanese stamping also shows a Shimano skewer, while the Olmo photos show a Campy QR nut. Not the same bike??

Steve in Peoria

Last edited by steelbikeguy; 02-18-24 at 06:46 PM.
steelbikeguy is offline  
Likes For steelbikeguy:
Old 02-18-24, 06:47 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,287

Bikes: Cuevas Custom, Cimmaron, 1988 "Pinalized Rockma", 1984 Trek 510, Moulton custom touring, Raleigh Competition GS, Bridgestone Mb-2 & 3, 1980's Peugeot - US, City, & Canyon Express (6)

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1093 Post(s)
Liked 3,726 Times in 1,830 Posts
All mention of Japan and Kashiwara now removed from ad?
And the pictures of the dropouts are gone?
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy

edit: maybe it's the lighting, but.... that dropout with the Japanese stamping looks like it is painted black. The Olmo is painted gray or silver. The pic of the dropout with the Japanese stamping also shows a Shimano skewer, while the Olmo photos show a Campy QR nut. Not the same bike??

Steve in Peoria
SoCaled is offline  
Old 02-18-24, 06:52 PM
  #7  
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,795

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked 3,119 Times in 1,962 Posts
Maybe an Italian built all Olmo for a Japanese market, and engraved as such once it arrived?
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is online now  
Old 02-19-24, 09:25 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,433

Bikes: You had me at rusty and Italian!!

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 566 Post(s)
Liked 1,047 Times in 542 Posts
Originally Posted by jdawginsc
Maybe an Italian built all Olmo for a Japanese market, and engraved as such once it arrived?
My initial thought too.

I think there is a forumite living in JP and perhaps they will chime in.
RustyJames is offline  
Old 02-19-24, 02:40 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Bianchi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 700

Bikes: 1984 Bianchi Tipo Corsa, 1985 Cannondale SM600 (24/26)

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked 349 Times in 190 Posts


This is what I found from Translate Images. I do not know what that means or if it helps!
Bianchi84 is offline  
Old 02-19-24, 04:07 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,484
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1639 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 828 Times in 537 Posts
Originally Posted by Bianchi84


This is what I found from Translate Images. I do not know what that means or if it helps!
Sounds like a name..... ...
__________________
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
Chombi1 is offline  
Old 02-19-24, 04:44 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Portland, Cascadia
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked 258 Times in 112 Posts
The name here is Kajiwara, not Kajiwara, but I don't know that name.
jPrichard10 is offline  
Old 02-19-24, 04:49 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
MauriceMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 522

Bikes: None in ridable condition

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times in 192 Posts
I think the seller confused two different bikes in that ad. The closeup of the stamped portacatena dropout shows different stay end treatment and the bike is painted black, both different from the Olmo that's up for sale.

The stamp on the dropout (BF apparently won't allow me to include any Japanese kanji, so here's a screenshot):



is that of the famous Japanese frame builder Toshio Kajiwara, who built for a variety of brands, but in the 1970s was the builder for Everest (Tsuchiya Seisakusho). He also allegedly built some of the top end Miyata frames in the 1970s.
Most Everest frames (of which there are many examples online) don't have this stamp, and I've only seen two other examples of this stamp (both if which were mangled), so I'm not sure if this was only done on frames sold under Kajiwara's name?
MauriceMoss is offline  
Likes For MauriceMoss:
Old 02-19-24, 04:57 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Portland, Cascadia
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked 258 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by MauriceMoss
I think the seller confused two different bikes in that ad. The closeup of the stamped portacatena dropout shows different stay end treatment and the bike is painted black, both different from the Olmo that's up for sale.

The stamp on the dropout (BF apparently won't allow me to include any Japanese kanji, so here's a screenshot):



is that of the famous Japanese frame builder Toshio Kajiwara, who built for a variety of brands, but in the 1970s was the builder for Everest (Tsuchiya Seisakusho). He also allegedly built some of the top end Miyata frames in the 1970s.
Most Everest frames (of which there are many examples online) don't have this stamp, and I've only seen two other examples of this stamp (both if which were mangled), so I'm not sure if this was only done on frames sold under Kajiwara's name?
BF also wouldn't let me type in kanji.

Good to know about Toshio Kajiwara, I hadn't heard of him before!

And yeah, definitely seems that the pictures wound up in the wrong ad.
​​​​​​
jPrichard10 is offline  
Likes For jPrichard10:
Old 02-19-24, 07:28 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,287

Bikes: Cuevas Custom, Cimmaron, 1988 "Pinalized Rockma", 1984 Trek 510, Moulton custom touring, Raleigh Competition GS, Bridgestone Mb-2 & 3, 1980's Peugeot - US, City, & Canyon Express (6)

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1093 Post(s)
Liked 3,726 Times in 1,830 Posts
Originally Posted by MauriceMoss
I think the seller confused two different bikes in that ad. The closeup of the stamped portacatena dropout shows different stay end treatment and the bike is painted black, both different from the Olmo that's up for sale.

The stamp on the dropout (BF apparently won't allow me to include any Japanese kanji, so here's a screenshot):



is that of the famous Japanese frame builder Toshio Kajiwara, who built for a variety of brands, but in the 1970s was the builder for Everest (Tsuchiya Seisakusho). He also allegedly built some of the top end Miyata frames in the 1970s.
Most Everest frames (of which there are many examples online) don't have this stamp, and I've only seen two other examples of this stamp (both if which were mangled), so I'm not sure if this was only done on frames sold under Kajiwara's name?
amazing info, once again. Any thoughts why a Japanese builder was working with Italian dropouts? was this a common thing?
SoCaled is offline  
Old 02-20-24, 03:01 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
MauriceMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 522

Bikes: None in ridable condition

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times in 192 Posts
Originally Posted by SoCaled
amazing info, once again. Any thoughts why a Japanese builder was working with Italian dropouts? was this a common thing?
Use of non-Japanese frame bits on production frames was probably pretty rare, but if you look at smaller artisanal builders, it wasn't uncommon for them to use Campagnolo dropouts, Nervex professional lugs, Reynolds 531 tubing, or even an occasional Huret dropout or two.

As for why, it might be just a matter of perceived prestige of Italian or French bits? In the case of Everest bikes, I'm not sure whether it was a matter of buyer's customization or simply vintage; I've seen some of their Esprit models with Campagnolo dropouts and some with Shimano SF. Same thing with the Record model.
MauriceMoss is offline  
Likes For MauriceMoss:
Old 02-22-24, 03:09 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,287

Bikes: Cuevas Custom, Cimmaron, 1988 "Pinalized Rockma", 1984 Trek 510, Moulton custom touring, Raleigh Competition GS, Bridgestone Mb-2 & 3, 1980's Peugeot - US, City, & Canyon Express (6)

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1093 Post(s)
Liked 3,726 Times in 1,830 Posts
Now we have a link to the Actual bike with the stamp
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ws...720334738.html


@MauriceMoss
SoCaled is offline  
Likes For SoCaled:
Old 02-22-24, 03:33 PM
  #17  
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,795

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked 3,119 Times in 1,962 Posts
Originally Posted by SoCaled
Now we have a link to the Actual bike with the stamp
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ws...720334738.html


@MauriceMoss

Okay, this makes much more sense now.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is online now  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.