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Are all square taper fixed cups left hand threads?

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Are all square taper fixed cups left hand threads?

Old 02-23-24, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Reynolds
I suppose the final word is the manufacturer's recommendations/instructions. Is your affirmation based on any of them? Just curious.
I believe so but mainly as a lifelong mech/tech/hack including auto's professionally for 25+ years and drag racing mc's much of that time as well, my experience has led to doing it right every time to the best of my ability.

One of the worst things as a tech is to have comebacks of any kind.

Many shops now days have zero tolerance and plenty of service managers never did, it was guaranteed to get you on their bad side where you could easily stay if they were really a hard azz whether it was your fault or not.

This was also the best reasoning for preventative maintenance that is what proper BB service is.

There is always time to do it right but never time to do it again.

Furthermore I'm not concerned with anyone else's opinion on this be it a manufacturer or St. Sheldon.

I know from vast experience what it takes to get down the road or track and back home.

Last edited by merziac; 02-23-24 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 02-23-24, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by trainman999
A few tips for removing BB 1 loosen the fixed cup first. 2 Clamp the removal tool to the cup. 3 set the bike on the ground with air in the tires, 4 stand in front of bike holding handelbars, press down on tool with foot, use cheater bar if needed. 5 loosen the adjestable cup. .6 put bike in stand and dissamble.
I really like this. Thanks!
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Old 02-23-24, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
I would strongly encourage you to get a proper fixed cup tool and use some method to hold it firmly in place, all thread, clamps, etc.

A fixed cup wrench encircles the cup for far better purchase when every last bit counts.

I have a Sugino that I have had for over 50 years that is the only one I really use, Campy is next with Park last, I have them all, the Sugino has never failed me.

Then have a good cheater set up, I have a 4 foot thinwall pipe that is flatened at one end and slips over the wrench when needed.

The big crescent wrench can work ok but most have tapered jaws that can be hard to hold flat, square on the cup and often try to "cam" out/off and round off the flats, once this happens, you lose the best footing and success is much less likely without extreme measures.

It can be imperative to get it very right from the jump.
Do you perhaps have a link where I can buy these tools. I wasn't even aware anything was available except the Park tool. I'm still new at this. Thanks.
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Old 02-23-24, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
Do you perhaps have a link where I can buy these tools. I wasn't even aware anything was available except the Park tool. I'm still new at this. Thanks.
Well the Park tool will "work" ok But the hook tool on the Sugino for the lockring is the best out there as is the fixed cup end IMO.

They have to come from efbay as do the Campy's and they often are not cheap but worth the extra, again IMO.

Plenty to be had but ones in could good shape may be a challenge, they are tough and don't have to be perfect but the better, the better.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...+tool&_sacat=0

You can look for Campy too but you need to check good pics closely.
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Old 02-23-24, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
I thought about that when watching the video.

I was about to order the tools and may leave off the fixed cup tool as it costs as much as the bb lock ring tool and pin spanner combined.
Originally Posted by John E
Just use the Sheldon Brown nut, washers, bolt removal system. It is also OK to treat it as the fixed cup it is.

here is the link to the sheldon brown tool https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
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Old 02-23-24, 07:52 PM
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.

Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit.
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Old 02-24-24, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.

Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit.
I had originally considered doing that. I would have to learn what to order and where to order it, how to make sure it's installed properly, etc. I didn't research it until I see if it's a necessary change or just an option.
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Old 02-24-24, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
here is the link to the sheldon brown tool https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
Am I understanding correctly that the washers just sandwich the fixed cup and hold it by pressure of the tightened nuts?
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Old 02-24-24, 08:42 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
Am I understanding correctly that the washers just sandwich the fixed cup and hold it by pressure of the tightened nuts?
Yes, that's the way it works, and it's effective. I use a 5/8" bolt and thick washers.
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Old 02-24-24, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.

Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit.
Sure, but you still need to get the fixed cup out before you can install a cartridge.
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Old 02-24-24, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
Am I understanding correctly that the washers just sandwich the fixed cup and hold it by pressure of the tightened nuts?
Correct. And there were shop-quality versions of that tool from Zeus, Kingsbridge, and perhaps others. AFAIK, they've all been out of production for quite a while, so Sheldon's bolt&washers version is the most accessible.

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Old 02-24-24, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
I would have to learn what to order and where to order it, how to make sure it's installed properly, etc.
Hey, that's what we're here for.
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Old 02-24-24, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
I didn't research it until I see if it's a necessary change or just an option.
I understand a bike shop would throw out a perfectly good vintage bb to save time and upcharge an unsuspecting customer, but don't really know why an owner would do that.
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Old 02-24-24, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I understand a bike shop would throw out a perfectly good vintage bb to save time and upcharge an unsuspecting customer, but don't really know why an owner would do that.
I just meant that I was going to service the BB unless the races were so bad that I thought it would warrant a new sealed unit. I wouldn't know until I got it apart.
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Old 02-24-24, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.

Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit.
have to still get the fixed cup out
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Old 02-24-24, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
Am I understanding correctly that the washers just sandwich the fixed cup and hold it by pressure of the tightened nuts?
yes

also good idea to put some penetrating oil on and let it soak in (I like freeze off)

and you will also likely need a cheater bar
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Old 02-24-24, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.

Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit.
Over my dead body, absent that only if it comes to me with a Phil.
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Old 02-24-24, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
Am I understanding correctly that the washers just sandwich the fixed cup and hold it by pressure of the tightened nuts?
Yes, and in some cases if it slips, it can ruin a cup so you really have to make sure it comes out, the inside nut/bolt must be very tight.

So once this is successful there is no reason not to keep it original as it was, clean, lube, adjust and properly torque so you're good to go.
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Old 02-25-24, 11:58 AM
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SteinTool has a very nice and effective fixed cup wrench clamp.
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Old 02-25-24, 12:46 PM
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Working in a bike shop during the 80s we would leave the fix cup in for overhauling the BB.
If we had to take out a tough fixed cup out we would remove the wheels, turn the frame horizontal, clamp the cup in a vise with square jaws and use the leverage to turn the frame. Some cups have narrow flat portions so getting the bike perfectly flat in the vise was critical. This was a last resort and could scrape the paint on the BB frame edge if the cup flats were very narrow. Always worked though......
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Old 02-25-24, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
The "fixed" cup ALWAYS comes out for proper service of the cup and BB shell threads, inspect, clean and torque, period.

Any other version is neither complete or correct.
I don't agree. The fixed cup is poorly designed for easy removal, and if it is a chromed steel cup in a steel frame, there is nothing happening between them that needs servicing. Everything necessary for bearing service can be accomplished with it intact, and that is the way bike shops do it.

Risking damaging the frame and cup is pointless.
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Old 02-25-24, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I don't agree. The fixed cup is poorly designed for easy removal, and if it is a chromed steel cup in a steel frame, there is nothing happening between them that needs servicing. Everything necessary for bearing service can be accomplished with it intact, and that is the way bike shops do it.

Risking damaging the frame and cup is pointless.
And there it is, "easy removal".

This is why some are professionals or as good as, many things are not easy, if you're not competent or skilled enough, admit it and don't make up excuses for unacceptable practice.

We know you don't agree and I don't care if you disagree or if you and the bike shops shortcut the process on all those unsuspecting customers all those years.

Proper BB service includes the threads of the fixed cup and BB shell as well as proper torquing upon reassembly.

If you can't get the fixed cup out without damage then by all means kick the can down the road and leave it up to someone who doesn't know any better and is sure to screw it up for you.

There is no risk doing this if you know what you are doing, apparently that is not you.

I have NEVER, EVER damaged any tools, parts, frames, paint or flesh doing this my way.

Your argument is pointless, you go ahead and do you man, I'm sure it works just fine for you.

Last edited by merziac; 02-25-24 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 02-25-24, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldbill
Working in a bike shop during the 80s we would leave the fix cup in for overhauling the BB.
If we had to take out a tough fixed cup out we would remove the wheels, turn the frame horizontal, clamp the cup in a vise with square jaws and use the leverage to turn the frame. Some cups have narrow flat portions so getting the bike perfectly flat in the vise was critical. This was a last resort and could scrape the paint on the BB frame edge if the cup flats were very narrow. Always worked though......
This was of course common practice back in the day, the downfall of it is that a shop vice is not a precision tool, they often can't hold on to the thin cup flats tightly, squarely and flat after years of use and abuse that they regularly take.

There needs to be 2 separate containment's, one for the tool and one for the frame, especially when you have to really lean in.

The possible paint scrape is an unavoidable byproduct of the process and can always be touched up if necessary.

Many jaws don't align correctly over time, especially the worn top edge that is critical for this.
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Old 02-25-24, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
And there it is, "easy removal".

This is why some are professionals or as good as, many things are not easy, if you're not competent or skilled enough, admit it and don't make up excuses for unacceptable practice.

We know you don't agree and I don't care if you disagree or if you and the bike shops shortcut the process on all those unsuspecting customers all those years.

Proper BB service includes the threads of the fixed cup and BB shell as well as proper torquing upon reassembly.

If you can't get the fixed cup out without damage then by all means kick the can down the road and leave it up to someone who doesn't know any better and is sure to screw it up for you.

There is no risk doing this if you know what you are doing, apparently that is not you.

I have NEVER, EVER damaged any tools, parts, frames, paint or flesh doing this my way.

Your argument is pointless, you go ahead and do you man, I'm sure it works just fine for you.
Where do you get off being so insulting because I disagree with you?

I am a superlative mechanic, and can also remove and install fixed cups all day without damage. However, you and I aren't going to the OP's house to pull his cups for him. This is an advice forum largely for people that aren't necessarily great mechanics or DIYers, and the small engagement and high torque involved in fixed cup removal represents a risk that is largely unnecessary for the life of the BB. They are torqued down so tight that Italian cups won't move.

Do you remove headset cups crown races to do a headset service? I don't do that either because the cost/benefit isn't there.


You made your point; I made mine. Both are reasonable perspectives, but only one of us had to be insulting. The OP can decide to take any set of advice he wants on the merits, and hopefully not on who is ruder.
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Old 02-25-24, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
The possible paint scrape is an unavoidable byproduct of the process and can always be touched up if necessary.
Originally Posted by merziac
I have NEVER, EVER damaged any tools, parts, frames, paint or flesh doing this my way.
Huh?
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