Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

The death of the Asian lugged import bicycle

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

The death of the Asian lugged import bicycle

Old 04-17-24, 10:19 AM
  #76  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,333
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4573 Post(s)
Liked 1,717 Times in 1,127 Posts
Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
How is this weld any uglier than a titanium weld? As for when lugged production availability ended in Japan is impossible to answer since they are still available.
Because that isn't a production weld on a typical bike shop bike, but an advertising sample from a high end specialty builder. But this thread is not about custom bikes, but production bikes that largely cost under $1000. Those bikes were replaced with stuff that looked more like this:



What does availability in Japan have to do with the thread topic of imported bikes?

Last edited by Kontact; 04-17-24 at 10:23 AM.
Kontact is offline  
Old 04-17-24, 12:09 PM
  #77  
Administrator
 
BillyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 33,071

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92

Mentioned: 326 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12013 Post(s)
Liked 6,765 Times in 3,531 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
While the skill to produce such welds is undisputed, some of us finds lugs far more elegant and refined, your disagreement to the contrary notwithstanding. And suggesting that some of us who appreciate lugs are "trigger[ed] [by] some long imprinted memories" is insulting, at best.
I read it the same way. Would we be happier if we all thought alike? Why does a difference in tastes have to wind up into an argument? Happens all the time throughout these forums, to the point that I think many folks populate forums, in general, for the pissing contests . . . “I’m smarter than you … I know more than you … I’m better than you … “ . It never ends.

Such a shame to waste one’s time in such a trivial pursuit. At least if you could make a couple bucks with a wager on an argument it would be a little worthwhile, at least.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
BillyD is offline  
Likes For BillyD:
Old 04-17-24, 12:33 PM
  #78  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,333
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4573 Post(s)
Liked 1,717 Times in 1,127 Posts
Originally Posted by dddd
This may or may not relate directly to the original topic, but at some point I believe (in the late '90's?) the loading/strength standards for production frame/fork testing increased sharply, meaning that steel framesets in particular became yet harder to produce to a competitively low weight.
Of course steel frame production as applied to better-quality bikes had already trailed off by then.

I recall in the early 2000's someone bringing me a new Tange Prestige frameset to build up, and my being shocked by how heavy it was, despite it not having lugs.

Another related data point of sorts would be Peugeot's adoption of lugless frame construction around roughly 1980, where similar bikes could be compared having lugged versus lugless construction. The lugless construction removed significant weight, allowing lesser frame tubing to be used without any net weight gain.
So as far as the "when" goes, that continuum would seem to have began in the 80's as far as the higher-production models goes.

Lastly, Schwinn was perhaps the biggest player in terms of the other end of the time-line, when large-scale production first started shifting to Taiwan.

The arrival of uni-crown forks would perhaps be another significant point on the timeline, many early examples of which were brazed using a bikini style of crown.
I have a mid line Fuji Tiara 52cm brass brazed frame that weighs 4 pounds. How much lighter are the internally lugged Peugots?
Kontact is offline  
Old 04-17-24, 01:01 PM
  #79  
Full Member
 
MooneyBloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 486

Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Liked 308 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Yeah that is really nice looking.
Having 2 competing frame tube brand stickers is really odd though. Like 'I can't remember the last time I've seen that' level of odd.
Mixed tubing frame set perhaps? I think my Mooneys have some Reynolds along with the Deda 01. Peter didn't put on tubeset decals, and they'd look ugly and out of place I think.

Last edited by MooneyBloke; 04-17-24 at 02:09 PM.
MooneyBloke is offline  
Likes For MooneyBloke:
Old 04-17-24, 01:13 PM
  #80  
Full Member
 
MooneyBloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 486

Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Liked 308 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
Everything but that Bic-lighter-esque fork crown is pretty amazing-looking.
It somewhat reminds me of the crowns for the old Columbus Max forks. As I recall, they were somewhat long and flat too. Not my preferred look, but à chacun son mauvais goût.
MooneyBloke is offline  
Old 04-17-24, 01:41 PM
  #81  
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,205

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1568 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 869 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact
I have a mid line Fuji Tiara 52cm brass brazed frame that weighs 4 pounds. How much lighter are the internally lugged Peugots?
Four pounds sounds pretty light for a steel 52cm bare frame. Was that a women's model by chance?

I never weighed the Peugeot frames, but my brass-brazed lugless PH501 complete bike weighs no more than my complete lugged PX10E from a couple of years earlier despite it's lesser 501+Carbolite tubing and steel Huret derailers (someone put nicer Sprint derailers on the PX10).
Both are just under 23 pounds in 57-58cm size (C-T), and both sporting 25mm folding clinchers on period narrow rims having 36 spokes and 13-26t freewheels.



dddd is offline  
Likes For dddd:
Old 04-17-24, 02:06 PM
  #82  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: St Louis Park MN
Posts: 174

Bikes: Mead Ranger '24- Armstrong 3sp '64 Follis 172 '74 Centurian Accordo 80's Mercian '85 Mark Zeh road '86 Kona Explosif '93 Merkx Ti AX '97 Santana Arriva tandem '99 Bike Friday tandem

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times in 23 Posts
I am going to add a why, not a when to this discussion. I worked in a bike shop in the 1990's when MTB sales overwhelmed road bike sales. At the time I said that you could leave a $200 MTB next to a $1000 road bike, both unlocked, and the MTB would be the one stolen. Used road bikes were cheap and I wish I would have started collecting then. Almost all MTBs were TIG welded so it made sense that TIG welding spread to road bike construction also. Sloping top tubes and different size tubing construction also was made simpler by TIG welding. I believed that this had much to do with the change from lugged to TIG welded construction in the 1990's.
MeadMan2 is offline  
Likes For MeadMan2:
Old 04-17-24, 11:50 PM
  #83  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: portland, or
Posts: 220

Bikes: Motorola Merckx, '72 Paramount, '72 PX-10, CF Hill

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 56 Times in 28 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact
Wow! Look at that fork crown! What a gorgeous machine.
If you're on instagram I'd highly recommend following haradatetsuro of Samson as well, he does beautiful work.
dphi is offline  
Likes For dphi:
Old 04-18-24, 12:30 AM
  #84  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 410 Posts
Originally Posted by chain_whipped
Originally Posted by Trakhak
That's not a lugged frame.
Yes, but it has the rear sprocket outboard of the seatstay, gotta admit, a cool feature. Makes going to belts so much easier.
Duragrouch is offline  
Old 04-18-24, 04:36 AM
  #85  
Steel is real
 
georges1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 2,030

Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam(to be built),1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 688 Post(s)
Liked 1,010 Times in 671 Posts
The after 1994 specialized cirrus a welded tig frame made of direct drive cromo was very well built and made in Taiwan. My1991 Merida Albon, 1993 Giant Tourer and my 1999 Jamis Dragon are made in Taiwan, they are very well made. TIG welds are very cleanly executed. There are skilled welders in Taiwan and in Japan.
georges1 is offline  
Old 04-18-24, 10:21 AM
  #86  
Senior Member
 
leftthread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Land of Cheese
Posts: 1,081
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 106 Posts
Saw a minty Miyata mixte at the thrift for $49 a few days ago. Gold SunTour freewheel. Someone got themselves a nice bike.
Japan-made 1976 Schwinn SLT12.2 frame before painting.


Basket case off of CL.
leftthread is offline  
Old 04-18-24, 09:46 PM
  #87  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,707

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11051 Post(s)
Liked 7,600 Times in 4,239 Posts
Originally Posted by MooneyBloke
Mixed tubing frame set perhaps? I think my Mooneys have some Reynolds along with the Deda 01. Peter didn't put on tubeset decals, and they'd look ugly and out of place I think.
Yeah I am sure it's mixed tubing, I just can't remember ever seeing 2 actual brand and model tuning stickers on a bike.
If you mix Columbus tubing, I thought Columbus then wants a generic brand sticker vs model sticker.
If you don't use enough tubes, both Columbus and Reynolds say 'nonono' to a specific model sticker.
And example is using all 3 main triangle tubes from Reynolds for 725 tubing to carry the Reynolds sticker. This is per Rodeo labs. https://www.rodeo-labs.com/shop/framesets/flaanimal5/
The Columbus explanation was told to me by a local longtime builder.


Just surprised to see 2 brand stickers, especially with specific tubing model listed.
mstateglfr is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.