Identify a brand from serial number?
 

I recently picked up a couple of old 12-speed road bikes that were going to be scrapped. One of them has no decals on it. The brand doesn't appear to be stamped on it anywhere either. Based on some of the components and characteristics, I'd guess that it's mid to late 80s. It does have a serial number (W 71385) but I couldn't figure out which bikes used that type serial number.

Does anyone know what brand used serial numbers like that?

(I can't post photos yet.)

I've looked through threads here and references on other website and this serial number format doesn't seem to match the formats used by Raleigh, Nishiki, Schwinn, Peugeot.

Picture This
 

But we can.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dc6c350905.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...afa96b7454.jpg

OP's Album.

-----

when decoding serials placement can be another helpful variable


-----

Um, you did see this?


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...facb84ea1e.jpg

That's not good.

Thanks for posting the photos.

Here are the components from the bike that I noted.

Sugino VP crank.
Sugino bolt in the lug at the top of the seat post.
Shimano Light Action rear derailleur
Shimano Light Action M5 downtube lever shifters (in the frame)
Shimano front derailleur
Dia Compe side pull caliper brakes
Dia Compe brake levers
Hsin Lung drop bars
Freewheel has 6 gears
Crankset has 2 gears

Either the front or the rear wheel is not original. I suspect that the rear wheel is original and the front was changed at some point.
Front wheel:
Sunshine 4345 front hub
Wolber rim (T410 Alpine, chrome magnesium) hard anodized,
700 x C200 tire
Tube has a presa valve
Sunshine quick release levers

Rear wheel:
Suzue 7 L rear hub
Araya 27 x 1 1/4 rim
27 x 1 1/8 tire (tire size is not the same as the rim)
tube has a Shrader valve

The derailleur cables pass under the bottom bracket and go through holes in the bracket.

From looking at some Nishikis, the lugs look like they might be the same. I don't know if Nishiki made the lugs on their own bikes or if they sourced them from another manufacturer and if so whether other bikes would have used the same or similar lugs. Or maybe I just haven't looked closely enough and they're not the same.

The forks and head tube look like they might have originally been black but were spray painted silver to be closer to the colour of the frame. (There might have also been black on the first 10 cm of the frame near the head tube.)

Although it's far from being in pristine condition, I was thinking of fixing it up. Other than surface rust, it seems to be more or less functional. I think that I might only need to replace the cables and a few spokes, de-rust the chain (or put on a new one), and put on new pedals.

I'm just wondering what brand it is. I was thinking that maybe it's a Nishiki. After a bit of searching on the internet, I've seen a few that had most of the components that this one has. I'm not sure about that serial number though. I thought that it should have a second letter after the W if it's a Nishiki. Unless the second letter was stamped in the cable groove. That would be weird but I don't know how diligent people were about looking at placement when they stamped numbers on the bikes (or even if there was variability in where it COULD be placed).

Anyone recognise the brand and model based on these details?

If most of the parts are original this looks like a late '80s lowerend road bike likely selling the $350-400 range.

However it is very TALL so if you're not well over 6ft it likely is too big for you.

MOre importantly the frame and fork are bent. Personally I'd steer clear of it.

Hondo6:
There is rusting near the lugs. I suspect that it's superficial, but it's possible that the pointy parts of the lugs have come away from the tubes. Even if that's the case, I don't think that it extends far. (But who knows?)
I still can't post photos but there should be 2 additional photos in my album that show a close up of a few of the lugs (and the rust around them).

oneclick:
I'm not sure if you were pointing out that the lugs could be used to identify the bike. I considered that. The lugs look like they could be from a Nishiki (or whatever other bikes used the same lugs).


Wow! That's quite the list. Thanks for pointing it out.
From that list, the only one that it looks like it could fit the format with would be a Sekine, but I think that the components on this bike are from at least the mid 80s. If the W for Sekines was for 1971 and 1972, it would be too early for this bike.

Other than a potentially missing second letter, it would fit the Nishiki format that T-Mar described. (The W being USA - 1985-1987*) So the missing second letter would likely be F, G, or H.

Is there a similar list for North American or European bikes?
I'm in Ontario, so there's a good chance that the bike was made either in Canada or the USA, or at least made for the North American market.

I didn't notice that the frame is bent. I'm glad you pointed it out before I tried to fix it up.
That might explain why the front wheel is different from the back. I was thinking that maybe it was in an accident (or got bent some other way).

Sometimes a front impact results in bending only the front rim or the fork or the frame. In this case, given that the front wheel was a replacement, it seems that all three ended up bending. Large frames seem to be particularly prone to incurring damage to all three.

Best to take that bike back to the scrapyard, although you might consider harvesting some of the undamaged parts first.

OP: oneclick was graphically identifying the frame/fork areas that appear to have been damaged by a rather severe front-end impact by circling them in red above. In my comment, I was agreeing with his assessment in an understated way.

I agree with the accident assessment, as well as that being the reason for the different front wheel. See Trakhack's comment above for more specifics.

If the accident was severe enough to bend both frame and fork, it's also very likely why the frame was on its way to the scrapheap.

That's a pity - it otherwise looks like a decent vintage find in a somewhat hard-to-come-by size.

Is the angle of the forks what's indicating to you all that they're bent? I've seen a lot of photos of bikes with similar angles - at least, not straight in line with the head tube.
That said, I'm a bit suspicious of that bike anyway. I suspect that it was damaged at some point and that someone fixed it up at home. The forks and part of the frame have been spray painted. (The forks, head tube, nearby bits of the rest of the frame were originally black.) The cap at the bottom of the head tube doesn't seem to be perfectly flat with the top with the forks (although doesn't feel loose, and it turns easily). That's not really visible in the photos but I noted it when I was checking out the bike.
But I'm curious if it's the angle of the forks compared to the head tube that indicated to you all that it had been bent in an accident. Or is there was something additional that I didn't notice?

What are the indications that the frame is bent? (What was in the two red circles by the head tube?) I checked it out just now to see if any of the tubes look bent. I couldn't see any bends. (I just checked them with taut string though.) I haven't taken the the stem and forks off the bike so I can't comment on whether the head tube is still cylindrical. So, like with the forks, I'm interested to know if there's something that I'm not noticing.

The rusted sections just behind the top and bottom head lugs indicate that the impact was hard enough to bend the tubes enough for the paint to crack and expose bare metal. It takes a very hard hit to bend a frame that much.

The fact that the fork crown race is not square with the lower head tube cup tells you that the fork's steerer tube (the part that goes through the head tube) is bent, in addition to the fork blades being bent.

The head tube angle is considerably steeper than would be the case with an undamaged frame. As a result, the wheelbase is shortened from what it was before the accident.

The top tube slopes upward from back to front. That frame would have had a level top tube when it was new.

Look at enough damaged and undamaged frames in profile, and you will develop the ability to see frame damage that you'd have missed otherwise.

Oh. I didn't think of that. I'll keep an eye out for those things in the future. Thanks.

Agree with posters above frame and fork are bent/damaged, here is another way to visualize it. The top section of the fork should be in line with the headtube, which it most definitely not, sometimes it is hard to tell, this one is clear. If the fork had to bend back that much, something has got to give, that something is the red circles in @oneclick post above.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4428a7a225.jpg

I've seen that serial number format (stamped on the bb shell) only on Miele frames. Is the bike located in Canada?

Best guess, from the pics provided, is Miele Uno 12 (not LS or MS) that was resprayed (or possibly partially resprayed?) and crashed.

Sugino VP and Shimano Light Action are likely original to the bike, as they were OEM on a few Miele models.

This one had a bit of frontal impact too:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af5987d988.jpg



https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ea91ad5a8f.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3b0182fdd1.jpg