Thinking about a new project, advice needed
 

Looking for a new project, something from the 50’s , maybe earlier if that’s possible . I’m not very familiar with this generation of bikes. What makers should I be looking for. I’m not wanting to do a restoration, I’m looking for something with nice patina that’s not going to require impossible parts to source. Thanks

Not. Gonna. Happen. :)

Unless period correct doesn't matter, then easy as pie.

Personally, I find this era the most interesting. No one really overly dominated and quality of workmanship is generally very high. Most brands listed here have built in the 50s and earlier. I'd stick with the Italians. https://classicrendezvous.com/

If you narrow it down and choose an Italian bike, I'm happy to help. Your request right now is quite vague and I don't have much to say other than yes, it is broad. Like a barn.

More than likely it will be Italian. I have some pieces of early Campy.

@Sloar that is a worthy and interesting period. I am assuming that you are looking for something European or lightweight. I'm thinking that you are not looking for an American middleweight coaster brake bike. Those are relatively easy. I'm looking forward to seeing what you find.

I saw this bike at the Philly Bike Expo. It is a 1948 Camille Daudon. Boy was that a treat just to look at.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...204387ef56.png

British or French randonneur

for british here is some inspiration https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...othergill.html

The bike that got me addicted to this period was a 1951 Rudge Aero Clubman, that I just couldn't make fit me, so it moved on to a shorter legged person. The TI era Raleigh / Rudge / Humber club bikes like the Lentons and Clubmans can be found for very little these days. Anyway, I love the British lightweights, especially the path racers. I have one that is my regular daily rider, I just painted my second seen in this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-build-up.html , and I'll be building up an A.S Gillott Alpine Tourist Deluxe this fall as well.

Finding parts for them isn't a big deal since no one seems to want anything cottered anymore. Stronglight and Williams chainsets are relatively inexpensive, BSAs and Chater-Leas are definitely more pricey. If you want to stick to period appropriate wheel builds, finding rims can be a pain, often built wheelsets are far easier to source. I think the hardest parts to find from this period are headsets. It's as if all the old ones had been ridden maladjusted, then became indexed, then were thrown away <-- this is probably what happened, since headsets aren't nearly as exciting or sexy as high-flange hubs.

There's a part that is easier and cheaper to find by British marques than Italian or French, besides Normandy/Atom/Pelissier which are literally selling for aluminum recycling prices and can be serviceable, thanks Schwinn! Bayliss Wiley made some great hubs, including the first "freehub body" hub, with three bearing races. A tank of a hub, of which I need to find a sample, then build up a bike... British Hub Co. made Solites, Airlites, Racelites, the prettiest of which are the Airlites, which can be found with colored anodized flanges. There's a ton of hub companies, but the BH ones are the easiest to find.

I think it's far easier to "cheat" in the resto-mod of a bike to make it rideable and serviceable with more available parts, especially consumables. 27" rims can be substituted with 700c, and there is a greater selection of tires available. 26 x 1 1/4" (597) rims can be substituted with either 26 x 1 3/8" or 650B, again giving more clearance for mudguards and a better selection of tires. Sturmey Archer internal gear hubs are ubiquitous in the British builds, easy to find in good condition, and can outlive us all, given a little bit of oil, proper bearing adjustment, and shifter indicator spindle adjustment.

If you haven't already, check out https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/ to see some of the marques out there.

I can go on and on about these bikes, but I'll stop for now.

Phil

Since Italian is your thing, you may or may not want to buy from Arts Bikes, you certainly can get some ideas from Arts Bikes.

https://www.ebay.com/str/artbikes/Fr....m3561.l170197

Got two but not quite from the fifties...
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3aebdab7d6.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9f56acc039.jpg

And, I have decided to let this go, and at a reasonable price (the component group is pretty darn nice...
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d3e467ed5d.jpg

Here's some old catalogues:.
There's also Holdsworth Cyclone de Luxe (1948 - 1951)

Appreciate all the help. I’m usually drawn to Italian bikes, but the British made some very attractive bikes.

There's a white and pink (aka faded red) Frejus touring bike at a local bike shop, which will probably eventually end up in my collection. They keep lowering the price and every time I go in, they mention it's still there. It's UGLY, with a bit of rust here and there, but I see nothing but gorgeous late 50s steel dreams, so I know where you're coming from.
I love that pea soup green of the Legnano commonly seen.

Phil

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22635537447...CND37DQ5JA7NKV

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18669890386...&segname=11021

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29647274967....c101506.m1851

Love this one...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20479847704...Bk9SR-TtxMPEZA

And this one is cool
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11607414964...Bk9SR-TtxMPEZA

It depends on what your intention is. A 100% correct bike - tricky thing. Something from the 1950s can be tricky, but doable. Something from, say, the 1920s or 30s will be quite hard to get a complete, period-correct bike. If you're in it for a rider with some adaptations, then it's doable. Pre-WWII bikes tend to be tougher to get parts for than post-war bikes because so much stuff was scrapped or damaged during the war.

My recommendation for something at the "easier" end of the spectrum would be a 1940s or 50s Raleigh, BSA, Phillips, or Hercules road bike. They're fairly well-made, were produced in pretty good numbers, not overly expensive (usually), and the parts can still be found on eBay and similar places. There is also support available through the Veteran Cycle Club out of the UK for those kinds of bikes. There is a growing number of clubs online through Facebook and similar places. Frame and fender graphics are available for many brands through H. Lloyd in England.

A notch more difficult would be one of the better Schwinn bikes - any of the fillet brazed models or the Paramount. Pre-1960 Paramounts tend to be on the expensive side, but fillet brazed models like the pre-war Superior or the 1940s Continental (not to be confused with the welded 10-speed from the 1960s and later) are still available. These bikes tend to follow English-style parts and designs. People are often surprised to see that Schwinn made some very good touring and road bikes for adults right before and right after WWII. If you want to go really esoteric, Schwinn even made clubmen to compete with the British bikes.

The French and Italians also made some very good bikes in that period, but I've always found them a little more difficult to locate parts. But certainly if you find one, they're worth a look. I have a soft spot for Automoto and Gnome Rhone bikes from this period.

Definitely a different class of lightweight racers to get into. If you plan to ride one, there's going to be a sacrifice such as ergonomics, handling, gearing, brakes etc.... but also rewarding. To experience that era, and still get from point A to B. Without doubt, expect a conversation piece.

I don't seek any particular brand or country of origin and prefer the more obscure. Just go with what hits emotions and can fit the frame. Can walk through a show with absolutely top shining bikes, yet somehow will be drawn full on with some crusted masochist thing.

Here's a current listed example, though from a legendary brand that gets my attention. Funny the sale listed title doesn't even say Bianchi. Lower carryover from their pre-war model, described frame design was continued into the early 1950's. Serious patina. Can't even place a monetary value because its only worth what a nut for an old crud bike would crave for.
-------

From the description:The Freccia Mezza Corsa model represents the most economical model compared to the World Champion in the 1954 Bianchi catalog.

It comes directly from the 1940 Folgore model, the frame and crankset are the same, it is only updated to accommodate the Campagnolo dropouts and mount the Sport or Gran sport gearbox.

Even the components with which it is assembled are taken from fine models of the past.

Compared to the top model, it has 4 pinions (gears) and only one crown, hence the name "half-race".

It is a racing bike in all respects, but with a less competitive configuration. From the chassis number 081447 it is clear that it was built at the end of '53 or the very first months of '54, because it is only in this period that the number zero appears before the chassis serial number, a characteristic that makes it special.

CARATTERISTICHE TECHICHE:

Telaio 081447 misure: 58cm x 55 cm centro/centro

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c1fadcc952.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c5d79fbc4c.png
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...90d7db61f3.png
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b5b34596ae.png

My first postwar project was a Stallard. IMO the bikes from this era with the most visibility in the US are British. They showed a lot of variety and originality as well as nice workmanship. Lots of interesting components to choose from, and you can still find what you need for reasonable prices. The Classic Lightweights UK website has many great 40's-50's bikes for reference. I get the impression there is a lot of older French stuff around as well, but you need to get onto the French-speaking forums like Tonton Velo.

Great example, thank you. I love the Bianchi.

All I can say is it is a rat-hole, but a really fun and interesting rat hole. I just went from early 70's as my "sweet spot" to now 2 early 60's a 1950, and a 194X (plus another 1940's bike that I sold). Where I used to be able to get a frame in and build it up "how I liked it" generally in a weekend, or a couple of months if I repainted it, to now spending many months (and way more time) sourcing the parts that make sense.

I say "do it". I'd go Italian or British (or what I did, both).

I’ve dipped my toe into these waters and the two biggest factors (for me) are original and complete. Condition is not irrelevant but it’s much easier to find replacement stuff if you know what you’re looking for. An original derailleur on a 1950s English bike (for example) that is rusted solid gives you an idea what to look for. One of my bikes is missing the brakes and originals are some bizarre cantilever-ish set up that seems impossible to find.

If you enjoy a challenge, this stuff is a fun learning experience. If you’re eager to get the project done so you can ride it, substitute stuff can be used but where is the fun in that!?

There is a middle ground - replace missing parts with similarish but not necessarily totally period parts.
That way you preserve the frame/forks, the bits that won't ever be manufactured again and are only original once.

If somebody wants to fit the exactly correct parts at some point in the future I'm happy with that, at least I've rescued a frame in the meantime.

With British bikes there's also the point that a lot were sold as frames BITD because complete bikes had sales tax on them and parts didn't.
- Just tried searching for the dates on that and it's very tricky to find, but it's just before or after WW2 I think.
So the manufacturer would suggest what parts to use but it was down to the buyer what they actually fitted.

Edit:
Yay, many thanks to nkilgariff
https://www.nkilgariff.com/Models.htm.

Found a good one. 1940/1941 Bianchi Folgore Reparto Corse. I'm even tempted.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/305806660928...gAAOSwY7Rm8-NR

If I didn't have 4 interesting projects that I'm struggling to find time to work on, that one would probably already be on a plane to me.

That is just crazy cool. So tempting. 3-4 year project to get the proper bits. Never had a team bike before. Looks like Cino Cinelli's size. :)

interesting and huge persistent bank withdrawals