Mystery frame for ID'ing
 

Hello all fellow bikers. Here's my second thread, and just like the other, another mystery frame to keep some detective work in motion.

I'll be posting some info about this before attaching the pictures since I'm one post left from being able to do so.

This frame was given to me in exchange for a job I did to a guy. He had this really tall road bike as a single-speed, but since it had short rear dropouts, he wasn't able to give tension to the chain, so we ended up helping him into getting a proper frame for that.

From what he told me, this was a parts bin project, which means the few components that came with the bike aren't even original since he most likely simply picked the bare frame. He also told me there wasn't any branding on it, and the original paint, which was blue and can still be seen in a few places, wasn't much of his taste, and he ended up removing most of it to repaint it with a black spray... However he didn't have the patience to remove all of it, so that's why some places still have some blue spots.

From my perspective, this is quite a light frame, made with good steel, perhaps Cr-Mo but can't be sure. From the short dropouts, construction and braze-ons, my guess is that it's from the late 80s - early 90s, but correct me if I'm wrong. It's also really big, 64cm on the seat tube and 59cm on the horizontal one, making the 700c wheels look stupidly small, hah. However, this was quite a find for me, as it's really hard for me to get big frames around here... I'm about 1,90m tall (6'3").

Since it has a serial number and looks like a good frame, I was hoping someone could help me here with finding what this bike is, since I was planning on getting it repainted (with the original color and decals) and back to the road as a proper geared roadie.

Pics coming after this!

https://www.bikeforums.net/g/album/35391977

I'm having some trouble uploading the pictures, perhaps this album can work for the purpose.

If anyone is able to upload the pictures into the thread, please go ahead and do it so, because the "manage attachments" window is always giving me an error and I'm not sure what else to do. Thank you!

In the meantime, thought about adding some of the most peculiar details of the frame that should make it easier for identifying it, I hope.

- SIZE: 64cm (ST) x 59cm (TT)
- SERIAL: 11563 / BI 08870 (under the bottom bracket)

FEATURES
- light tubing (not gaspipe)
- "half-lug" connecting the seat tube with the top tube, with a disctint shape
- chain hanger on the seat stay
- gear levers braze-ons (down tube)
- two rear brake braze-ons (non-drive side of the top tube)
- original metallic blue paint

Also disassembled the fork to search for a serial, but nothing in there.

A few closeups of kavluxx's frame:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1ed8a4eb2.jpeghttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0db30813a.jpeghttps://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f6bcfb23f.jpeghttps://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c5f6bc9f9.jpeghttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2199fc308.jpeghttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...95f71943e.jpeghttps://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e612ad8b2.jpeghttps://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eb40f0d67.jpeghttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...147a232fa.jpeg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...83e17d2833.jpg
The bike as it was being used. Parts are not original.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b41765d379.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e554ecaee2.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e7471478d7.jpg
Fork detail.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fc1e15c253.jpg
The "half-lug" detail.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b28cb0791f.jpg
Rear, short dropouts.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...79a92bef32.jpg
Notice the chain hanger in the seat stay.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5340768d28.jpg
Drive-side BB.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a8e610b71.jpg
Non-drive side BB.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6b1a52cf29.jpg
Gear levers braze-ons.


​

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...57d8f5f47e.jpg
Rear brake mount. Notice the blue paint underneath.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...968217626b.jpg
Side view of the rear brake cable braze-ons.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2feba9f60.jpg
Bottom bracket reference?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...02fd405797.jpg
Serial?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...22b209799f.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1191ebbe6b.jpg
The original blue paint, apparently in metallic finish.



I'm really sorry for the struggle, I was finally able to put them here using my phone.

I have vintage luminium Miyata with V-Brake, but I don't know model.

So I did some more digging around, and when I moved to Italian brands, things started to look much more identical. Saved some pictures:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1efa6250ae.jpg
Yes, it shouldn't be Indurain's Pinarello from 1994, but it does have a lugless frame with that half-lug near the seatpost.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...90b4a72e5e.jpg
Also notice the chain hanger.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8d3176151a.jpg
This Gios from 1996 also has that half-lug, as well as the classic blue color. However, unlikely to be it.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ddacd1bada.jpg
Moving into a no-chrome frame, this Bottecchia from 1994 starts to look a bit closer. Unicrown fork, lugless frame, and apparently has identical rear brake cable braze-ons. The "half-lug" is absent, tho.


But then, Olmo bikes were the ones that tipped off:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...92053ab8ca.jpg
This unicrown fork looks quite identical.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2eb860e539.jpg
The "half-lug" looks really identical on this one.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...790961142.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...04dbdce090.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...da6a359c33.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...125f68c0f2.jpg

This last blue Olmo was the closest I've got. "half-lug", identical dropouts, chain hanger, unicrown fork.

Something is obviously still missing here, but my guess now has been narrowed to an Italian low to mid-range frame from the 1990s. Tell me what you think!

Rear dropouts are not identical, as the Olmo has adjusters and the brazing/weld is different at the stays. Olmo has fastback seatstays. Olmo brake bridge is different.
What is the tubing outer diameter? What is the seatpost diameter? What is the threading and diameter of the steerer tube? What is the threading and width of the bottom bracket?
If you want to really get in the weeds, what is the diameter of the headset cup seats? This, because that headset is saying department store and many used the old BMX head tube inner diameter of 32.6mm.
Please don't take offense to this, but while you have a road bike, I don't think you have an Olmo there.

Phil

Hey Phil, I know those measurements, especially regarding the BB can help a lot. When I decided to take some photos and make a thread here, I was convinced it was going to be a bit easier to track a brand or some clue that could lead to the ID. I didn't have much time with the bike as it is staying on my local bike club where I volunteer every wednesday. I will definitely take all those measurements next week and upload them here as soon as possible.

The Olmo suggestion was just a small assumption after some digging online. There's clearly differences, but after blindly hunting for italian brands, it was the closest resemblance I managed to reach.

The headset mounted in this bike looks very wrong, seems to have come out of some generic department store mtb, and I know for sure the cups are too small for the head tube diameter, as they are completely loose.

what the OP's has are more clues that point to a time-range that's keeping with the other (Italian) examples: the semi-vertical DOs, extended seat lug with "point", more Tig-welded joints than lugs, some form of Unicrown-ish fork...but none are an exact match.
What throws a curve-ball is that BB: looks almost like a Stronglight but...couldn't be! Right?
might be the serial number will be a best clue for somebody

Hey folks, I managed to sneak into the bike club to finally get those measurements. Here they are, regarding Phil's guidelines:

Tubing outer diameters:
- Top tube: 28.9mm
- Seat tube: 29.2mm
- Down tube: 32mm
- Head tube: 33.4mm

Seatpost diameter: 26.8mm

Headset: ISO/English (crown race 26.4mm, steerer tube inner diameter 30.2mm, inner diameter fork 22.2mm, outer diameter fork 25.4mm)

Bottom bracket: ISO/English (shell width 68mm, left-handed thread on the drive side)

I guess it doesn't say much since these are quite standard, perhaps the tubing diameters can say a bit more since they're a bit diverse? Having the frame stripped down impresses me with the weight of it, I don't have a weight scale but I remember picking a fork with around 870 grams and this feels way lighter than that, maybe between 600-700 grams.

With that BB width and thread, not Italian then?

Italian is right hand thread on drive side and 70mm shell width.
Phil

One thing I can't take my eyes off is that chain hanger. Such a weird detail for a frame that appears to have a more mass-produced look. To be fair, the first time I saw it I didn't even know what it was for, took me a while to find out. It's not something you see everyday around here.
It's probably tricking me but it keeps making me feel it was made in Europe, at least. And the size is quite extreme as well, maybe ordered for someone by measure?

I don't know how long did the Italians used their BB, but by the 90's a lot was going on with the industry, maybe it was starting to be common with their builds? Or maybe just an export model...

the possibility narrows quite a bit, not 100% impossible but...as PhilFo points out an Italian frame from this approx Era should have 70mm shell and RH threading both cups. There WERE Italian makes switching to ISO BB threading around this period, but this one is a bit too early. Plus there's not a lot of other definite "made in ITALY" clues.
26.8 seatpost would be Aelle if it was Columbus, but if Tange or another Asian tubing maybe in the "Champion Number 2 or lower" category. I think its a mid-range frame

I am wondering if the outer diameter of the seat tube was measured or if the seat tube lug was measured. 29.2mm is a bit wide for a seat tube with a 26.8 post.
I wonder if researching and cross referencing the Asian serial number database is in order.
Phil

Yes, I confirm, even without paint the seat tube measures 29mm and at the lug around 31.5mm.

The hunt keeps going. Recently managed to bring the bike home, along with the parts. Spoke to the guy and it seems that some of these might actually be original, which adds another layer of mystery.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4532bd6ac.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e60dcbfc7.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fa972582b.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e16293947.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...adafad4f5.jpeg

These "Jalun" brakes look kinda decent and polished, but can't find much online about them. There's a set of these on Ebay, funny enough being sold in Portugal too, and it says they're japanese.
As for the wheels, the hubs say "Jou-Yu K86", and I did find a couple of these online, mostly from japanese BMX bikes but also a lot of these for sale in 26" rims by Araya and other brands. Joytech is the current name of the company, which seems Taiwan-based?
As for the rest, the handlebars are French Belleri BF, the stem simply has an 85 stamped on it, and the seatpost is actually an ITM. Unfortunately the transmission got completely swapped out, so nothing can be identified from that.

I've looked at the Asian serial number database, but nothing really seems to match, all have too many numbers and characters.

This probably means the bike might come from Taiwan? The european hints like parts and that "BI" engraving down the bottom bracket must aim to the market, but still far from getting a match. Also the 85 mark on the stem and the 86 on the hubs could track a man. date that seems a bit more older than I thought.

I know maybe this isn't a very desirable bike, just wanted to give its identity back during restoration. It's also starting to piss me off but I guess I'll have to start accepting I won't be able to find it out.​​​​​​

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one thing could not help but notice in all of the examples cited is how different is the joinery of stays to dropouts than it is on the subject item

stay ends on subject are simply domed and slotted to accept dropout

makes me lean toward "asian production" for an origin which you seem to have arrived at as well


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Homologation code
 

The BI 0887D is a homologation code. This code is for Decathlon Productions in France. This code dates from about 1997.

I do not know the frame manufacturer. I do not know much about Decathlon in France either.

Thanks, I've checked Decathlon bikes from that era too and they have some key differences, particularly in the straight front fork, which suggests this bike is at least older than their bikes from that era.
I also have a Spanish Zeus from 1998 (probably made in the Orbea factory by that time) and it also has a "BI" code stamped on the bottom bracket, which made it possible to be the brand of the bike, still unconfirmed.

It's possible that it might be a portuguese frame as well. From experience I know that when an unidentified bike looks too weird on this forum (posted by me), there might be a big chance of being portuguese. Brands like Masil seem to have used particular details like the chain hanger, and so it opens the possibility for that. The size of the frame is one of the biggest turn-offs, because 99% of the local framebuilder bikes here have more short/medium common sizes.
​​​​

Reminds of some Bianchis, and yes, some 90's reparte corsa Bianchis had english threading BBs. the blue sneaking out from under the top paint also looks like a color Bianchi used.

They look very similar to the Gran Compe
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...24b2f00fc.jpeg

Decathlon never made a frame like this . Their high end steel frame was the cobra 740 made in yellow color in 1994 till 1996 and then it was white and black and had Genius megatube tubing

I was thinking about that possibility since BI are the tow first letters for Bianchi