I like it, but a slight tweak - the person buys the pads, etc. from the shop doing the tune-up.

No no no. It’s my shop. I don’t care where he gets my cables an KSs.:thumb:

It's easy enough to replace "Motorcycle Shop" with "Bicycle Shop" here... the same points apply.

I was about to head over to the closest lbs yesterday and quickly checked hours. It was 5:10pm and it's a 20 minute walk/8 minute ride. Turns out they close at 5pm daily. Dang. They're in business so I guess it's working. Employees want to go home, which I get. I'm clearly not their demographic.

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That way you can have many amusing conversations with the customer about how they bought Campy pads for their Shimano calipers and Japanese shift cables for their Campy shifters. Yay.

I've lived in Seattle for 15 years. Yes, the cost of running a business here is astronomical.

The more interesting question is what is the breaking point for shop labor charges, at which customers will balk, and either defer maintenance / skip maintenance / just buy a new bike online instead. Obviously this shop's business model was unsustainable.

The restaurant industry here is not doing so hot, for similar reasons.

Our shop serves basically a whole county plus a number of coastal towns. While we don't have major metro rent prices, it still isn't cheap. E-bikes of all levels of quality are increasingly popular, but we have to be pretty strict with what we allow in the shop, especially overnight. This is almost entirely due to insurance, and the difference to service a normal bike vs a throttle-equipped Amazon Special takes our bottom line from barely making it to deep red. The latter half of this year has been slow as we ride out the glut, price-cutting, and new-discount-price-vs-cost rug-pulling as companies work to right their own ships. The big T is no different.

Being an independent dealer can be tough sledding, especially at our size. Pay is very modest presently, and advantageous living situations help 'subsidize' our income to make it work. A rural county still and will always have people who want an e-bike, have no idea what they cost, and will think $70-80 is fine (this was today) or balk at a Bosch-equipped model being rotated out of our rental fleet for near $800 off new (which was $3k). The news has continued to say things are fine economically, but I haven't believed it one bit because I see and live the reality daily. Customers are cheap and many don't have a ton to begin with. I have ideas on shifting our product mix down market in price, but when Trek adds $300 to MSRP to a Marlin 7 (big feature adds/upgrades) while at the same time discounting a Roscoe 7 (again!) to just under $100 over the Marlin 7, the Marlin is hosed, and so are we as the Roscoe is a much more capable chassis/starting point and the Marlins sit.

What keeps a shop open?

- Essential staff only, with one in the showroom over winter full time--keep it trim!
- Modest pay
- As low of overhead costs as possible in other areas
- Employees and owner wearing as many hats as possible to cover all the bases without needing more staff
- E-commerce if you're able to make it work
- Social media to embrace, if at the very least as a "necessary evil"--it is 2024 after all
- Bikes in stock that people will be able to buy on the spot
- Affordable new bikes with a few moderately aspirational models
- A non-judgmental sales and service staff that is approachable and knowledgeable--this is something I know we do well. We meet people where they are and all of us fill all the gaps and overlap a bit. We're straightforward and honest as a default, but bikes are fun and I like them, so the enthusiast and encourager comes out
- Enough parts and accessories in stock to be a help--we still have to be wise here as there is a zoo of stuff available and we refuse to sit on non-selling inventory if at all possible, even if that's what we're dealing with right now
- Good hours that work for customers

I spent about three years working on a flat rate manual for golf shops, based off of a manual we used to use for bike shops. Under current conditions my assessment is it costs close to $100 per hour to operate a shop in just about every service industry. And that includes very bare bones of operations like one or two employees. That includes the space costs and every other aspect of having a retail space for customers. What folks don't realize is that small things can add up for a daily or hourly cost. Your restroom needs TP and cleaning supplies and those things have a cost that is part of daily operations but not seen by the public. They are all rolled into a cost per hour of opening the front door. Get into a high rent zone and watch the rate per hour grow exponentially and that is with no extra income for the shop owner.
As a golf professional I charge a minimum of $100 per hour for just consultation, that pays for the years of training and getting to be in the top 10 in the world at what I do. As a bike mechanic I can't ever come close to that rate, because folks don't value the experience and knowledge needed to be good. Smiles, MH

Most excellent post. Got to feel for the small business that really is good sticking to its operating budget, is disciplined running everything tight controlled. Though the unpredictabe such as soaring insurance (all sectors) is going to take more small businesses down. Disgusting to watch.

The LBS success/lack thereof as all have mentioned, is very nuanced and I agree, much like a Rubics cube

I have a couple observations
One thing I believe to be also considered is just the geography/location as well
for example, many of you are in urban areas, and LBS are close and many to chose from
My nearest LBS is 60 miles away in mid Missouri here, and not easy nor routine to get to for me
So, I am just saying, location matters as some have said, it would seem open a shop near by me is easy to say, hard to do in some areas. My small town of 15k has literally 4 riders and it would be a no go
whereas some in your areas may have hundreds more in foot traffic daily, which helps in terms of the numbers/success or at least the potential to be successful. And even at that, I think it still takes alot of other things as well, as the thread has well mentioned and I won't be redundant in that.

Secondly, and something not yet mentioned is I have heard tossed around the community is the corporate brands are killing the LBS as well, by requiring inventory to be purchased at the beginning of the year ($100k or more), then mid late year they threaten if sales are not made they will liquidate their warehouse (to make room for new inventory) which the corporate brand errantly filled and thereby undercut the LBS. It certainly seems nuts to me that by virtue the LBS is accountable for the erroneous overprojection of the corporate inventory/sales, but I never underestimate corporate ability to mess things up and the pressure they exert around them to diffuse that miscalculus. Then add to that undercutting is the direct to consumer, that again kills the LBS.

Thirdly, not to be missed, is innovation is not necessarily helping LBS. The direction the markets go are controlled by shimano/sram/less by Campy, and mutually by most of the framemakers. Year to year innovations are essentially controlled by them dictated to the LBS on what direction they must go, and I put myself in the LBS shoes, I would find it prohibitively difficult selling routinely bikes now that cost $5-10k...or more. That's a real ask of them to do and they don't necessarily ask for that. What I mean is the LBS is at the mercy of a market that is directed by the technology the drivetrain makers and the framemakers and what they want to sell, and engineer and by virtue of that the cost of that innovation. Don't get me wrong, I love eye candy, but the question is do entry level riders need....and i mean need, Di2 drivetrains, and hydraulic disc/wheelsets?? And, what accountability do the framemakers/drivetrain makers share in that....with the LBS?? When I started 40 years ago, I could start at a meager entry level and I then developed a taste for what I wanted in a bike. I'm not convinced its as easy today. The market today is being driven in a direction where for entry of new riders...who may develop that flavor in time but as newbies have no idea... to invest heavily (minimally 2-3k) into a bike/drivetrain or not....and I am afraid some do pass and do not invest. The LBS is in the middle of that, or the LBS is the accountable party for that and thats a difficulty for sure.

So, that being said, I don't envy the LBS, I would love to operate one and it would be fulfilling no doubt, but my heart and mind are divergent as there are a plethora of considerations for them to be reasonably successful, as many have said, its more than just being knowledgeable, service minded, with inventory and all.

For what its worth (nothing), and several bucks...that'll get you a coffee:-) near your LBS

I don't know if this is the place to do so, but I had the BEST experience with an LBS in Altadena CA and feel compelled to give them a shout-out.

I was in that area and working on my nephew's Trek which had been subjected to an e-bike conversion and "had issues", so with the tools I brought I determined what needed to be done and went up Lake street to Steve's Bicycle Shop on Mariposa in Altadena (I had visited this shop before, but usually only around the Holidays, it's a very unassuming, maybe humble and "nothing fancy" establishment ) with a mental shopping list

This time Steve was absent and instead I was dealing with a young woman (I estimated in her 20's) with long bleached blond hair and...she far exceeded my expectations!
She knew exactly what I wanted, found the right parts, asked the right questions (some of which I had neglected to consider) and I left thinking "Wow! How often does THAT ever happen these days?"
And then I went back a second time for additional parts and it was just as comprehensive and positive as the previous visit!

If I was on Yelp or some other such site I'd give this woman (didn't ask her name) and "Steve's" 5+ stars... I sure hope he pays her enough to keep her employed there.
If you have any reason to visit a humble old-skool LBS in the San Gabriel Valley, do go there! Keep her and "Steve's" in business!