Frame ID anyone?
 

I just picked this up at the LBS for dirt cheap and dont know what it is. Campy drops, a Reynolds sticker, Cinelli BB. I can take some more picks if needed. 26.8 seatpost is in there but it may be 27.0. I put all the parts on it so there are no clues there. Thanks, Rob
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cb6fbdeaf8.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c633906fe.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0c84070fc9.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...94bb7e0a3b.jpg

BB, Serial numbers, HT threading?
 

Is the BB, BSC, French, Swiss, Italian? Steerer threading? Any serial numbers?

Yes, sorry I forgot some info. BB and headset are both English. The number on the bottom of the Cinelli shell is 1209272880. Cable guides are brazed onto the top of the shell. Also there is a strange hole on the drive side rear dropout that looks factory. I think that shows up in one of the pictures above.

My best guess would be 78 or so Nishiki International limited in the xl 63mm size.. A nice pic of the numbers off the BB underside of bike could likely confirm.

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"strange hole" is to accommodate the Campag "portacatena" (chainholder) feature which was only offered for a brief period - provides a helpful dating clue

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Nicely made frame, from outward appearances. The semi-wrap seatstay tops are a bit generic but nicely pulled-off. The Prugnat lugs and Cinelli shell mostly rule out Japanese, right? I mean other than a few small custom shops, Japanese OEMs had a strong incentive to use Japanese lugs and other bits. Those lugs and seatstay tops were so common on high-end frames that it doesn't help at all to point to a builder, but I still like 'em. Anything with a Cinelli shell is bound to be high-end because those shells were always expensive.

I forget when Portacatena holes started disappearing, thinking '82-ish? Of course, even after <C> stopped making them, they were still in the distribution pipeline and builders' dropout drawers, so they went away gradually (I still have some!). Someone here knows the earliest possible date for a Portacatena but I wanna say '78-ish. Ah yes, Chuck Schmidt's Campy timeline says they were first shown at a bike show in late '77, so '78 model year would be the first to show up on bikes for sale.

Good call on the chainhanger, thats it! Here's a couple more shots of the BB with the serial number of 1209272880.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dabf9fa4b9.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2681776323.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0e9e52a288.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7e375763f.jpeg

That is an impressive number on the BB shell! So impressive in fact, that it is bound to contain some significance. Like the 12,092nd frame built on 7/28/80, or the first bike built by someone with SSN 209-27-2880.

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no guesses as to perpetratore

certainly appears to issue from an anglophone terra

ID may need to await the next visitation of our most august MauriceMoss ;)


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When giants roamed the earth.

Am of no ID help whatsoever, but think it's a fetching if crazy bike. Sprung saddle implies time spent on unpaved roads.

yep: i agree a very nice looking frame and the guess that it's a 1980 (per serial number) also good since that's right in the "sweet spot"for a portacatena Campy DO and also the transition from nutted brakes (as this has) to Allen head bolts, also the earlier Cinelli SC cast BB shell (AKA the "can-opener" with those stay sockets).
A surprise is the lack of shifter bosses, but could be it's been built to a customer's spec.
Would not be surprised given the size of frame if this used a heavier gauge 531 tube for at least the seat tube, which would account for the smaller (27.0 or 26.8) post. My bet is on 27.0

Looks like a decent frame, but nothing really distinctive to suggest who built it. Maybe a Proteus frame build kit? Might the number be the builder's phone number?

120 is not a No. America area code. but is in India (and don't think this came that far)

Nice frame, tall, but no clue who made it.

Nice assortment of C&V Nordic skis, though!

Per the OP in post #1: "I put all the parts on it so there are no clues there."

Could be, but the chrome dropouts makes me think pro builder, not amateur. Anyone can get a frame chromed, but few hobbyist FBs do.

The heart shaped cut outs in the lugs indicate Columbus tubing. I have a CBT Italia with similar lugs and dropouts but the BB is not Cinelli.

I don't think so. Looks like a Prugnat S4 windowed lugset to me, which was used on a lot of bikes made out of all kinds of tubing. Also, the subject frame has a Reynolds 531 decal near the top of the seat tube (1st photo).
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...32a69026e9.jpg

I had hoped these lug cutouts would be a distinguishing feature, but it seems that they are just standard Prugnat S4 with no extra mods, just some nice thinning out at the tips.

Any clue with the oval cutout on the bottom of the BB?

Someone suggested a Nishiki International Limited. All the pics I looked at do not seem to match at all. Also the Campy drops and Cinelli BB would probably rule out a high production Japanese bike. The Reynolds sticker seems to be original as does the paint, but that is not a certainty.

I agree the chrome on the dropouts may indicate more of a professional rather than home builder.

Perhaps this will remain a mystery!

Charles Wahl is correct of course. They're nice lugs, if you like the wrapped-and-welded sheetmetal type (and I do), but completely generic, used by probably hundreds of builders.
Seldom seen on Italian bikes, or anything with Columbus really, most often seen with 531.

EDIT: I wrote "wrapped and welded" but I don't know that for sure, they might be bulge-formed, which doesn't involve a weld. There are no visible welds on those Prugnats, but it's possible to make the weld "go away" with post-weld finishing. Here are some Cinelli welded lugs from the '70s, welds mostly smoothed but there are still telltale signs of where the welds are:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...179dd633e4.jpg
(scanned from the old Rivendell Lugs Calendar)

non-fixie 's instincts are right - since most of the bits are generic and could have been used by a lot of different builders, the serial number is key.

The unevenly stamped, long numbers were the hallmark of Ray Gasiorowski. So, I'm going with this being the 12092nd Romic built on Jul 28,1980.

Some of the pages from Ray's build book are posted online but unfortunately the page with the number of this mystery frame isn't among them. The page starting with 1300381180 is the closest it gets.

Here are some serial number examples from another Romic mystery thread:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fda78b10bb.jpg

Thanks, MauriceMoss :thumb: That clears up one thing I found puzzling: the frame very much exudes a continental European vibe (my very first thought was Motobecane C4/5), but that didn't jibe with the date format.

We don't get to choose which frames are identified, only the great MauriceMoss gets to decide.

Having said that, any ideas on this one MauriceMoss ? https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...n-content.html

I believe MauriceRoss has solved this. Here is a scan of one of the Romic books, with serial numbers starting at 13,003 on 8/11/80.
My number is 1209272880 meaning 12,092nd frame from 7/28/80. My frame would be a page or two back. I think the chances of this working out so nicely would be slim unless this is actually true. I'll have to do some digging and try to find those pages.

Now to find some decals!

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dfccc2d7fd.jpg