Bike Forums - Merz tandem?

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- - Merz tandem? (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1305725-merz-tandem.html)

Did you guys get them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sactown_Albert (Post 23465400)

Did you guys get them?

Nope

wow. looks like a custom made headset, probably roller bearing, and Phil front disk

Careful - don't ride those phil disks - the friction disk is 30+ years old and will disintegrate into dust leaving you with no brakes

them's the breaks

/markp

Strong agreement with mpetry912 on the Phil disk. Not safe to ride. Phil Wood Co. will tell you the same. I have personally seen several where the interface between the hub and the fiber disk stripped out, leaving you with no brake. It'll happen at the worst possible time too. That bike shop should be informed that if they sell the bike like that they're inviting a liability lawsuit.

That bike should probably have the crown drilled for a rim brake. Braze-on for a modern disk is another option, but without knowing what blades were used, that might overpower the blade causing it to kink backwards. I've seen that a few times too, sometimes only unraking the left blade a little, causing the wheel to sit off-center, but also sometimes it kinks catastrophically, which will almost certainly cause a crash. Unlikely that Jim would have used anything especially light for the blades on a tandem, but without knowing for sure, a rim brake would be safest. Any brazing would require repainting too, versus just drilling the crown which preserves the paint.

Can't say for sure if it's really a Merz but my bet is on yes, looks real.

I like how the Phil's disc brake dust smells. Can't get enough of it. Same with the neighborhood kids. We grind those discs up and snort them.

Yum.

1, We thought Mr. Merz only made 1 tandem, a red looker, winner of the Seattle to Portland* and on display at the Westside Bike Shop in beautiful downtown Portland.

2, Its a tandem. It will not be going anywhere. Meanwhile, the collection of Schwinn Orange Krates and Pea Pickers are flying out before we can clean them up.

*Its not a race. That's like saying "I won the Bridge Pedal" or the "Tour de Mother In Law bike ride." There are no winners, just participants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robvolz (Post 23465689)

DOH!

Forgot to tell you the STP tandem is on its way home to Jim, his son was to pick it up from West End Bikes as they are closing for good as we speak. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robvolz (Post 23465689)

*Its not a race. That's like saying "I won the Bridge Pedal" or the "Tour de Mother In Law bike ride." There are no winners, just participants.

Dunno about that mate— any participant in those is a winner in my book! :thumb:

Assume this brown beauty was sold? Also assume it was determined to be a real Merz (even though reported by some he only built one tandem)? Do you recall size?…please tell me something too big for me! Would love to see this bike parked next to my also brown Bruce Gordon when I’m finished getting roadworthy. Mine was built in days when Bruce was still in Oregon, pre-chicken-era…was there a deal on brown paint in PNW?
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a9ac6bf8c.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2602ee93e.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11a80fc17.jpeg

Markeologist

I believe it did sell, quickly IMO.

Paging Robvolz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robvolz (Post 23465063)

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c0820cb3.jpeg
What is this headset

Can't answer that but I recently posted a find in the Tandem Cycling section's Found For Sale thread featuring a very similar monster headset, so likely at least limited production whatever the hell it is.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a94e94e42.jpg

I made this tandem for Ray Youngberg of Salem Oregon. I don't have the build sheet for if, but it must be from around 1978. This was when Phil disk brakes were first available. Ray was one of my best customers, he talked me into making this first Merz tandem. Portland had a number of serious tandem riders in the early 1970's, all riding Paramounts (see 1st photo below). I think I used mostly straight gauge aircraft 4130 CrMo tubes for the main frame, I had no access to purpose made tandem tube sets then. In order to make sure the for was strong enough I purchased a new Schwinn Paramount front fork. The fork crown on those forks look like it would be right at home on a John Deere tractor, so I took the fork blades out to make a proper fork with them. I made the steerer using 4130 tubing, thick wall that I bored out where the stem fits. The crown shown in the photo in the last post I made from solid. I didn't want to use a normal headset with this super stiff front fork. The fork leg tubing was something like 3mm wall thickness! I had a lot of experience with motorcycles and liked the quality of the headset bearings on Hondas. This headset used new races from a CB77 Suprer Hawk, I made the aluminum cups and nut. I know, ugly as sin, but it's not going to wear out! Ray wanted the Phil brakes to be the primary braking system. I thought that was risky, but the customer is always right! It should have included Mafac tandem catililever brakes. This is what should be on there if anyone actually rides this bike. The tandem Phil brakes are dangerous, if the friction disk fails it can lead to either no braking action, or a wheel lock up. Phil did come out with a friction disk with a steel spline, but this disk could cause a brake lock up if it failed. The photos of Ray's tandem that he shared with me, Ray had changed some of the original parts from when I built it. Is there a frame number on this tandem? If so I can find where it fits in the time line. Jim Merz
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1b2fc2c849.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...30b1a634f8.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bf61ef0d73.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7ffdf447bf.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b086cebf2d.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0f4b722a08.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7cec058dd5.jpg

Thank you for the info Mr. Portlandjim…the photo of the crew with their Paramounts is priceless! Honda Super Hawk….wow!

…another Phil disc-only tandem, the one Bruce Gordon built for himself…love the look, would hate the consequences!
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...691c916f4.jpeg

I made a tandem for Phil Wood in about 1980. It had to have Phil disks and no other brakes, not even a drilled crown or seatstay bridge. It was intended to be their show bike, to hang all their parts on for their booth at Interbike and such. Phil even "made" the oval toptube, one tube from front to back pierced in the middle for the cap'n seat tube. Of course they didn't make the tube, but they squished or drew it into the oval shape. Which was well done, a pleasing oval. Not like what you get if you just squish a round tube in a long vise! I made maybe 100 tandems with that toptube.

We all know tandems don't sell like they used to.

The co-op takes tandems reluctantly because they take so so much space vs the market. Any given time we have 3 or 4 that will sit for a min of 8 months. Recently we took in a Specialized Tandem with a full spare set of Specialized "flag" cranks. Everybody wants the cranks until I explain they won't work (reverse threaded) on their Allez.

When it first came in, I sent Jim an email on the tandem thinking he might want it back.

With front and rear Phil disc brakes, and no drillings to add rim brakes, we could not properly sell it to be ridden and put ourselves in a potential liability situation.

Jim answered back that he built several bikes for Ray Youngberg, but couldn't find the build sheet.

Ray's bike donations came with a scrapbook of biking exploits, tours, races, press clipping including a ride from Salem to Salt Lake City.

After advertising the bike both here and CR, an east-coaster contacted me about purchasing it. He was aware the dangers of the brakes and I got the impression it would be displayed, not ridden.

A very small price was agreed upon, considering the rarity of this brown beast.

He drove out from the east coast (3 days!!) and was coming down to Salem to pick it up when he called to say he was at Bob's in Northbend, and could I deliver it up there.

Like a fool, I agreed to drive 5 hours each way. Had to find a hotel for the night. (lesson learned: always arrange your delivery fee up front). He didn't even buy me a beer.

But, I got some wonderful time in with Bob and his lovely wife Diane plus a private tour of his indoor shop. All the tools. All the toys. Trip wasn't wasted.

Somehow the bike fit inside his older Honda Accord sedan with the frame entering the trunk and the rear seats folded flat. I never would have guessed.

Anyway, thats what happened to the tandem.

Ray Youngberg also ordered up from Jim a size 49 frame for his young son. Jim says it was built by DiNucci That ended up in Portland and I see it on some Pedalpalooza rides.

It seems to me that if you use cranks with pedal threading of the wrong direction and tighten the pedals well enough, it could work out. Am I very wrong?

Very very wrong. The pedals will unscrew themselves.