Italian threaded fork
 

Hi, I am attempting to source a replacement fork for my 60cm 1984 Ciocc Designer. I've been told that the fork would need to be 240 - 245mm and italian threaded to match the frame and current headset.

This is what I've come across so far: https://www.ebay.com/itm/286689266969

If anyone has any leads, advice, ideas, etc, please let me know! Thanks for taking a look.

the angle of the thread pitch is slightly different between English and Italian, 5 degrees. an English fork would be a class B fit but many think tolerable.

i would be more interested in the crown to axle center right angle length. good luck getting that. the fork rake will mean a bit also. I do not know what was original.

Ciocc has the 4 playing cards on the crown right?

is the fork you need flat or slanted?

can you measure the head tube? The rule of thumb is the head tube +40 MM for Campy

let me look in the pile

and if I do have one, I do not want money, I want you to find me a Colnago Fork

Are you sure the steerer needs to be that large? I have a hard time believe Soma wouldn't include forks that would fit up to a 60cm frame, 60cm isn't that large.

Soma sells a 1" threaded chrome fork with a maximum steerer tube length of 230mm. As repechage mentioned, the difference in threading is close enough as I would guess that the Soma fork has english threading.

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/som...5773#attr=2766

Just run a Brit die down it and walk away. No one will ever know. The difference is meaningless in that context.

That ebay fork would get you on the road, but the domed end on the blade at the dropout are all wrong aesthetically.

Oh no, I got that wrong! I could edit it to remove my error but I wanted to "show my work". Very few Italian builders used domed fork and stay ends by then ('80s), so I assumed Ciöcc was like the rest, but then after a little googlage I found this, an '84 Designer, for sale on ebay UK. The pics clearly show the domed ends.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fd97aaf4ec.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...32f26e755a.jpg

So, that ebay fork you linked to actually looks like a match.

Well to take a step or two back: First on the steerer length, that 240 mm does sound kind of long for a threaded fork. You can confirm by measuring the the head tube which is probably somewhere around 160-170 mm. You then add the space that the headset will take up on the fork steerer (called the stack height). This will be the width of the cups at top and bottom of head tube, the nut at the top, the lock ring, and the threaded portion that adjusts to the top bearing. The 40 mm estimate provided above is a good one. It is better to err a few mm too long than too short; that can be taken up with spacers.

Threadless forks have longer steerers to accommodate the stem.

Secondly, as noted above, don’t worry too much on Italian vs English threaded. It’s a big deal for bottom brackets but not as much for fork.

Lastly, you want to make sure of the crown race diameter. 26.4 mm is the standard on most bikes from that era. 27.0 mm is a JIS standard you will come across sometimes. Do you have the crown race from your headset to measure?

Thank you everyone for your thoughts! Please standby for updates, I have to take measurements on the fork and headset.

To add more context: I must have got water or sweat or something down the headset at some point, because the Cinelli 1A stem got seized in the steering tube. After no lack of effort and creativity, I just said screw it and cut the stem (about 3/4" above the top lip of steering tube, wish i had gone higher). Removed fork, headset is undamaged as far as i can tell/. I've set that aside.

After i take fork and headset measurements and provide those here so you good people can help me find correct replacement fork, I'm going to get to work on removing stem from the original fork. I have some ideas after some light internet research, of course very open to suggestions if anyone has a tried and true method.

Talk soon

Old pic of the bike in the meantime. For those wondering, original crank arm SNAPPED off on me while biking. No fun.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...80c8500620.jpg

Here’s what I’ve got measurements wise, best I’m able to tell.

So first off, I think I misinformed the group on frame size..I’m getting 25” top to center, don’t know where I got 60cm. In any case, fork measurements are:

Axle to crown right angle 37cm

Steerer length 24.5cm

Steerer diameter 25.5mm

Some of the headset remains on bike and fork, like the crown race for example, so can’t get some measurements requested accurately at present. But please let me know if those are needed. Skipped rake measurement as well unfortunately.

So if any one has leads of fork that would be suitable replacement, please let me know!

I guess I could also just source new stem and iso fork and headset, store original fork and headset away for a future project that may or may not come along..

In meantime, I plan on drilling out as much of stem from original fork as I can, then potentially submerging in sodium hydroxide if needed. Thats the plan at least!

Appreciate everyone’s time very much, and apologize again for bad info re frame size

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...35d8cf788.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...303995620.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bf988e930.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f37cc6b65.jpeg

Remind me, what's wrong with the original fork? I hope it's not just that it has a stem stuck in it, that's like a 15 minute job to remove. Me, I'd melt it out, about 2 minutes. But I have the proper oxy-fuel torch for that. I know it's not as easy for everyone. But you can also dissolve it out with drain cleaner, I've been told, tho I never tried it myself. Takes longer but you don't have to sit there, you can go watch tiktok or whatever it is people do.

That sure does have too many threads though, makes me respect Ciöcc a little less. Pet peeve, one of my many. ;) With that many useless threads below the headset, you'll have to take care to ensure your stem isn't tightening in the threaded part. The "minimum insertion line" on your stem doesn't mean anything if the minimum insertion is determined by the stupidly-long thread on the steerer. I would measure those threads, then make a permanent mark on the stem so you'll know it's tightening fully below the threads. Maybe an extra-long quill like a Technomic could help, if you like the bars a bit higher than a Cinelli or what-have-you will allow safely

Drain cleaner worked well for me. Super clean result.

Seized stem

I purchased a Motobecane Grand Jubile ( silver and red for era placement) frame and fork with the stem cut off- fortunately a stub remained.

cross drilled a 5/16" hole in stem. two days of Kroil, one day each end up of steerer.

upper portion of fork in bench vise. tommybar and twist. "crack" and free.
the seller could not extract the stem.

I am still unsure how to build the frame set up. but satisfaction of the save.

Thank you everyone!

I live in small Brooklyn apt, no access to safe area to use lye or a torch. The kroil/tommybar method sounds like right next steps based on what I’ve tried so far and my circumstances..but no bench vice and maybe don’t have the heart to try and fail at this point. Want to get back on the road!

A bike shop by me will extract with lye at a reasonable cost. I was thinking of trying to bore out some or all of it beforehand , but might just skip that and leave it in their hands.

This Cromor frame may be what somebody labelled as a "Designer '84" for sale in UK, but it's bears little similarity to those (same decal but on the front TOP TUBE where it belongs) as sold in the US!
I have never seen a Ciocc with that style of fork, even on the lowest "budget" models sold in the US, for one thing is has no panto on the crown.
I have doubts about this being a legit Ciocc frame, and more so about that fork...tho ironically it could very well be Cromor tubing!

here's a possible solution (but I think your best bet will be salvage the original fork despite the "too-long" threading)
I have an all-chrome genuine Ciocc fork that had a "steerer splice" done by Bernie Mikkelsen some years back and never put it to use.
it has 325mm of UNthreaded steerer so you'd need to find a 1" threadless HS (not so common but they are out there if you hunt).

By my quick calculations you should have just enough steering length to use it on your frame (needing 245mm) with a 30mm stack HS and 50mm clamp threadless stem, but such a stem may not be to you liking (that's why I didn't install it on either one of my Ciocc frames).

BTW sometimes you can find 1" threadless stems with a shorter-than-50mm clamp-height, I have one such made by Steelman that's 40mm. so if you find one you can add a spacer (and get a tiny bit more rise)

If such a fork interests you PM me. I am willing to sell it at cost but know what it cost me and therefore it won't be "cheap"

I get them off eBay no problemo. Variety of colors as well​

Just wanted to close the loop here, and to thank everyone for their time and input on the matter.

I ended up bringing it to a local bike shop. They went the chemical route, and used lye or something similar to dissolve the stem. The mechanic said it took the better part of three days to complete and that he was very deliberate in his approach, slowly adding chemicals and of course working in a well ventilated space. He said with a slow, deliberate approach, the reaction was not volatile and resulting fumes not excessively caustic. Extreme caution and a lot of patience seems the name of the game. Back on the road and very happy with the results. Thanks again everyone.