vintage bottom bracket - threads?
 

Hello, I'm thinking of buying this used bottom bracket on German craigslist. Setting aside the issue of whether the tiny weight savings of a titanium spindle will be noticeable/worth the trouble and magically fix the mystery clicking sound on my bike....I'm wondering if it's a bad idea to buy this because of the stripped threads on the cups? I read a lot about what to do when the bottom bracket threads of the frame are stripped but less is mentioned about the cups themselves – Is this fine? ...The ad does say it "needs a cleaning".


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6a78e5e4ca.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4b9a0a799d.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2baed96b07.png

Not sure exactly what you're talking about here, looks like the flats on the driveside cup are compromised and if the starting threads on the same are what your talking about I would say no.

IMO, unless you have good experience with this scenario, this is not the BB to try and solve any problems with.

Can't tell from here but cups look to be alloy, maybe. again not the BB to solve anything, already comes with its own.

I would find a good solid other candidate, noisey BB's are often not internal but seem so. :twitchy:

Yes those are alu cups. I have used that Stronglight BB in several bikes over the years and they are 100% reliable in my experience.
The munged threads might make it harder to get started in the frame, but once started and threaded all the way in, it'll be fine. You only really need a few good threads engaged.

I recommend anti-seize on alu threads going into steel, to prevent galvanic corrosion. Grease is probably good enough but anti-seize is better.

If the BB is cheap enough it might be worth messing with. You can "dress" the threads by cleaning them up with a small triangular file to get rid of the rough stuff, then test them dry in the BB shell, then use the anti-seize when you install. Much easier to dress cup threads than shell threads. Good luck!

Regarding your mystery click, it can be your pedal/s, chainring bolts, crankarm, bottom bracket, frame, seatpost, saddle, knee/s. Good luck!
Phil

Agree all the way around if its you or me doing it, if its someone asking ground level advice I like to encourage caution until I'm comfortable with the challenge and who's asking.

You and I know better and don't let that stop us, if we can get ourselves in trouble, we'll be the ones to save ourselves. ;)

I also used one of these in a Gitane TdF (way way BITD) and had no complaints about it when installed. When it came time to remove it (not sure why) I had to take it to a shop cause my tools and/or experience with alloy French BBs were lacking. There's a good chance I still have this in my "bin of ancient items".

If you really want one I could go searching, I'm sure mine would be in better shape, but I would not sell it "super cheap" since it has sentimental value.

I would sell it, tho. I'm not all that sentimental!
;)

WHOA! Hang on I re-read the OP's post and did not realize there were 2 versions of these Stronglight Competition BBs with sealed cart bearings and alloy fittings
One was a 650 and the other a 651; the OP has the version with TI spindle; I most probably have the version with steel spindle (if I still have the one I remember)...

but FWIW I never have been all that impressed with TI spindles (in other brands of BB units). It's a fussy metal that doesn't play well when mixed with other metals, very prone to galling and yes you really need to use anti-seize! IIRC it's even reco'd to use nickel anti-seize rather than the more commonplace copper-based stuff, but I may be mis-remembering that detail

Thanks very much for all the input!

It may be out of my league tool and experience wise to start messing with this - but I am tempted to try it to understand better the inner basic workings of my bike.

I would probably have to get the stronglight 49d crank extractor to get my current 93 SL crank off just to get at the BB...

Yes, the 23.35 mm (nominal size*) extractor is a must for working on old** SL cranks, Don't install one of those cranks without having the correct extractor in hand.

* note, threads always measure smaller than their nominal size, because the peaks of the threads are truncated. So a nominal 23.35 mm extractor might measure 23.0 mm with calipers. A nominal 23.0 extractor measures something less than 23mm. Yes it's a terrible situation for users and mechanics. You have to know what size your extractor tool was made for.

Having a 23.0 mm extractor (made for TA cranks) is the worst thing possible, because it'll fool you into thinking it'll work, then it'll strip the threads from the crank. Sometimes it even works, if the crank wasn't installed tightly.

Trying it with a much more common 22.0 mm extractor (Campy size) is safe, since there's no mistaking the fact that it's way too small. It's the TA tool (or Park equivalent, for example) that has killed so many SL cranks.

**At some point (early'80s?) SL switched to 22 mm extractor threads. So it's just the old ones that need the "proprietary" 23.35 mm tool. Luckily there's little confusion between those two sizes.

update - got the bottom bracket for 50 euros - which I think was a decent price. So going to try it.
But if I want to avoid stripping the flats of that drive side cup any more than it already is - what is the best tool to use?
Is it a terrible idea to just use a regular old adjustable wrench?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7ed8a02d22.jpg

Hello and welcome to the forums!!! :cheers:You sort of answered my biggest question as to whether this bottom bracket (BB) is compatible with your cranks and frame.

I agree with some of the others actually buying this before you know the problem isn't advisable, unless it's dirt cheap.

Your first order of business should be getting your cranks off and inspecting your existing BB, as pointed out the issue could be something other than the BB itself.

Where are you located? If you update your information to include a location someone may be near enough to offer to help you out.

OH I should have read more you already bought the BB


You really should get the correct Fixed Cup wrench for that BB
https://www.rivbike.com/cdn/shop/pro...g?v=1560796764

I'm not sure if this is it or not.

A Stein Fixed Cup tool is a great item to have to hold the wrench in place. There's ways make an OK one, which I've used one, but nothing beats the real thing.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...efd03160aa.jpg


Good specialty bike tools can be expensive, again if we know where you are someone might offer to help. A pint or two, as well as new friend, might be a better investment than a few bike tools you may never use again.

Thank you - Yes I really hope that the BB is compatible with my cranks and frames - it should be but I guess I won't know until I try.
I'm located in Berlin, Germany so prob not a ton of forums members here, doubtless there is a german language forum that I should post on. :giver:

It looks like finding a fixed cup wrench in 35mm size is not so easy, I see several on Ebay for like 40 bucks in USA but it's not practical to ship anything from there these days.

I think I need the park tool HCW-2 or something equivalent. Perhaps I'll try to see if one of the local shops will let me borrow one but I doubt it.

Agfa001 Oh OK. It probably wouldn't be the worse thing to pay a shop to looseneverything up for you then adjust and tighten it. You just have to weigh the cost of buying the tools and your time verses the cost their experience.

Forgive me if you gave us this info and I missed it, but what threading is the frame?
If English/ISO or Swiss, then the right-side cup has a left-hand thread, which is good because precession tends to tighten the cup in use. Then the wrench you use becomes less critical.

If the frame is French or Italian thread, the the fixed cup must be installed very tight or it will loosen in use. A normal flat wrench is marginal for that even with a steel cup, and asking for trouble with an aluminum cup.

A flat wrench with a Stein tool to hold it tightly against the frame is much better, but the right tool to use is the kind that threads onto the cup from the backside, like a Var or Campagnolo. Here's a Var #30, which is excellent because it comes with a variety of sizes of the jaws for different brands of cups that have different dimensions across the wrench flats.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f9754b3ffe.jpg

That's a shop tool, too expensive for the home mechanic who'll use it too rarely to pay for itself. So I'd strongly recommend finding a bike shop that has this, or equivalent in some other brand.

the threading is french..OK Thanks – and wow that is an impressive looking tool. And certainly wouldn't make sense for one time use.

It's becoming a bit tricky, I was all bent on doing this myself, to have the satisfaction of putting together this inner piece of the bike.
Already bought new bearings, anti-seize, and the correct stronglight crank puller (a cheapo one under 10€)

But I can see that it looks like not a good idea to mangle the flats more - so I either need to take it to a shop or find someone on the german bike forum board that might have the proper size fixed cup wrench at the very least. Looks like maybe the Stein fixed cup tool or copy could be found for fairly cheap...

As many have stated, correct size and threading needs to be insured.
Also, you need to see / verify the cones are Not damaged as bottom bracket cone damage, typical of older cup-and-cone systems, manifests as pitted, rusted, or scored metal surfaces, causing rough pedaling, creaking, or play in the crank.

This should be all set, I know the threading is french and that the spindle size is 118, which should be correct for my crank, which is a stronglight 93 double.

This bottom bracket has sealed bearings - checking the cones is less critical for this type of bearing correct? Or can there still be issues there?

There aren't any cones on that spindle, it uses cartridge bearings. The bearings are a standard size and replaceable. They're annular not angular-contact, definitely no cones.

I've ridden one of those for years on my best road bike, and I'm big and heavy. Doesn't mean it won't break for someone else, but it probably won't. I think they're pretty durable.

Managed to change the BB out myself using just an adjustable wrench. Changed the pedals also. Loosened and tightened the chainring bolts. Sound is almost completely gone!
there's still a whisper of it - but it's much fainter. May try changing the rear axle...or just live with it and ride the bike. the sealed bearings and lighter Titanium spindle do feel lighter and smoother, at least in my head.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...13cd3037c3.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...babbeb5ace.jpg

Or your replaceable derailleur hanger! Or spokes. Or uneven shift housing ends. Or any number of other annoying creak causes!

To the OP:

The best way to restore frame bottom bracket threads is to find a small (1 1/2" I think) radial wire brush from the hardware store for your drill. A long-time frame builder friend suggested this to me years ago. This will return the threads to pristine shape. Often better than when the bike was built. It will remove any rust, overspray or gunk in the threads, leaving them perfect for threading in replacement BB cups.