More hub projects finished today
 

I had these early Phil Wood hubs, they have chrome plated center barrels. As with most used Phil hubs they have a bit of rust, but cleaned up nicely. The original flanges were pretty beat up, so I made some new ones. I needed 48 hole hubs, the original flanges were 36 holes. A lot of work, but I'm retired! I also made the left rear axle shaft, I wanted the OLD to be 126mm instead of 120mm. I'm just showing them off, here are some photos. Jim Merz
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d7425c012.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c146a0d98c.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f988f210cc.jpg

Golly!

Where do you get 48-hole rims nowadays?

Pretty! How are the flanges fixed to the hub shell? Are they pressed on?

Very nice looking hubs :thumb:, they remind me of the Specialized Stout hubs

Tandems East apparently has some:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a95aa87039.png

https://tandemseast.com/wheels/

I have a stash of rims that came from Spence Wolf, including some 48 hole Super Champion Mod 58 versions. Spence talked Phil Wood into making sealed bearing hubs, the version I just modified were what he came up with. I am pretty sure that Spence ordered Super Champion (Wolber in France) rims in 48 holes for use on tandems. 48 hole wheels have a very small chance of spoke breakage, unless a stick falls in the wheel when riding! Jim Merz

These early Phil hubs are held together with Loctite. The axle is 5 pieces, a hollow center sleeve, two end caps with short tubes that fit inside of the bearings. These are press fit. The hub body is made with clearance between the three non drive flanges, all exactly the same by the way, and the shells. The drive side flange is internally threaded and the rear shell has the freewheel thread extending to the inside of where the flange screws on. All of these flanges are held on with Loctite. The axle assemblies are also held into the hub shells with Loctite only. The Loctite joints can be removed using heat. It's kind of a Rube Goldberg design, but in practice it works without issue. Jim Merz

Except under extreme circumstances. I witnessed a Phil hub that failed catastrophically when the freewheel was driven on so hard that it took the right flange with it, driving it towards the center of the hub, which made the wheel collapse.

That was in 1977 at the Fargo Street Hillclimb, an annual LAW event where if you ride three blocks you get an embroidered patch. It averages 33% grade and it's steeper at the top, maybe 35%. Lots of people try and fail on that hill, but there are spectators to catch you so you don't slide all the way back down!

The wheel that collapsed was on a Santana triplet with three big racers aboard (serious Cat.1 dudes IIRC). I helped build that frame, and I was on hand as a spectator to watch the attempt, and of course to ride it on my single. Still have the patch.

No one had ever succeeded at riding that hill on a tandem before, dunno if it's ever been done to this date (I moved away, didn't follow it). So we didn't expect the triplet to make it, but still it was shocking how quickly it failed. The wheel collapsed almost immediately upon hitting the bottom of the hill, maybe like two pedal strokes into it. Rather anticlimactic!

The freewheel butts up against the right side hub flange, so the freewheel drive torque doesn't flow to the center barrel. This failure would seem to indicate that the drive flange's internal thread stripped out. I can't see how the flange would have just rotated due to the Loctite slipping. Would any hub have held up to that load? The treaded portion of the center barrel is rather thin on these early Phil hubs due to the bearing OD, but if the tread on it failed the wheel would not collapse.

Really neat, and one component I've never owned. Sad that just about every set of PW hubs I see here on BF has pitted chrome. It's like "We made these hubs to last forever... except the chrome". Then again, maybe used day-in-day-out for decades in a rough environment.

I just looked at that Fargo Street silliness. I am exhausted just imagining it.

Nice job on refinishing those hubs, Jim. They look ready to roll. Three piece hubs always weird me out how they stay together.

>> Where do you get 48-hole rims nowadays?

Velocity Dyad.
32-48 spokes in 700c and 650b.

I've got a few of them and have had really good luck.
cheers -mathias

Are these 48 hole wheels for the long-awaited prototype Merz Low-Rider ?

Yeah not sure if I got to see the post-mortem on that hub back at the shop, but I did see the aftermath with my own eyes from a couple feet away there at the scene, same as many other spectators. The wheel definitely collapsed when the spokes all got loose from the flange moving inward, while 3 strong dudes were still sprinting. My assumption was the threads stripped, probably the threads in the aluminum not the steel. I agree the flange can't thread further on without rotating, which the spokes absolutely prevent.

This was almost 50 years ago, so my memory may be off on details, but it was a very memorable event!

I didn't think Santana had anything to be embarrassed about, but it was a very public failure, with probably a couple hundred people watching. So they didn't stick around, they whisked the crippled bike away ASAP. Even Phil shouldn't be too embarrassed IMHO, given the insane amount of force that was going through that hub when it failed. Jim asked if any hub would have held up to that load, and it's a good question, I'd expect that Phil to be one of the strongest hubs ever made, and I can't think of any other I'd call stronger.

That would probably be the only Santana that ever failed too. Not long after it got going, Bill took me down the street to check it out. Pretty cool. I recall the one builder's personal bike was a Ben Dover.

I hadn't thought much about the tandem for several years. Hanging out of site so out of mind. Don't have any good picks of the rear hub either.
I believe they are Suzuen Hubs with 27" 48-hole and Sun Chinook rims
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...54969337ef.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e31fa45e08.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...daef974db2.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...666443ce9d.jpg
hubs laced with 4 cross.

Nice hub refurbishing!

This discussion is right up my alley. Given the situation, I'm surprised the freewheel didn't fail on that triplet climbing a 33% hill. Hub or axle failure comes as no surprise.

But stronger hubs? Yes, they're out there and Chris King, DT/Swiss (previously Hügi), Rohloff and Onyx would qualify as "stronger." I took possession of my Cannondale mountain tandem in late '96 or early '97 right after DT/Swiss redesigned the rear hub's star ratchets. They made the star ratchet ramps shallower than originally designed by Willi Hügi, the Swiss engineer and namesake of the hubs. Customer complaints about the hubs being too loud prompted the redesign. Well, multiple star ratchet failures ensued. My first failure was on Slickrock Trail. I spoke to Willi at Interbike and he was NOT happy about them redesigning his hub. (My road tandem Hügis from 1993 have never been overhauled or even serviced and have never skipped.) They have subsequently addressed the issue and I haven't heard anything about widespread high torque failures since. (Yes, I've seen he Cal Poly engineering paper investigating surface hardness QA/QC issues on the star ratchets.)

Chris King WAS going to be my replacement hub after two DT/Swiss failures (before they rectified the situation). But back then, King was still using aluminum Ring Drives and I just couldn't put my faith in them surviving mountain tandem torque, despite Chris assuring me at Interbike that they would survive.

So I went with Phil Wood's Field Serviceable Cassette tandem hub.

It lasted about a mile into Slickrock Trail:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...79fc262e0b.jpg
The drive or engagement ring in the hub shell broke free of its retaining compound and screwed into the hub shell so far, it split the shell in two. PW was great about it and replaced the hub under warranty. Subsequent to this, I have not returned to Slickrock for the "full test," so I cannot attest to its ability to survive. However, my stoker and I have gone on to mangle another two freehub body internals & pawl sets, which Phil has remedied over the years for a very fair price. Still love the PW tandem hub though. A thing of beauty for sure.

Subsequent to my choice of PW on the tandem, Chris King switched to stainless steel Ring Drives. Had they done that earlier, CK would have been my choice.

Funny aside... I ordered a used CK hub service tool on Ebay about 10 years ago. The seller contacted me and asked, "I have a bunch of spare King bearings & parts. Want me to send them too?" I eagerly replied, "Yes, please!" Well, lo and behold, what appears in the box with the coveted King hub service tool and misc. bearings? A pair of old and obsolete aluminum Ring Drives, COMPLETELY worn down from years of use! Ha, ha! That seller totally made my day. And that I happened to buy a tool from a guy with worn Al Ring Drives after discussing the very issue with CK is awesome coincidence. I love the King rear hub and to have a legacy Al Ring Drive is totally cool!

Also, only DECADES later and after the fact did I learn that one of my father's late physician partners was Phil Wood's primary care doctor! I was just about five years too young to have come to appreciate this amazing coincidence. Oh how close I was to meeting the legend in person!

PS Anyone catch Berm Peak's recent video where Seth and friend try to tow thousands of pounds on a tandem? ULTRA low gearing via a 74T rear cog led to what I expected: freehub failure!

My hat is off to these memorable stories of breaking stuff and having fun. And the refurbed hubs look good too.

Now where did I put my hat?

Hah, that was me! Ben Dover was my fantasy bike company that never existed. I made 3 single bikes while I was there, and I was not allowed to put Santana decals on them because Bill wanted to be able to say "we only build tandems". (Of course later they did make singles, but not many.) So I made my own "Ben Dover" decals using Letraset rub-on letters, PITA but OK if you only need to make one or two. I think the first one, which I made for my roommate, did not get decals, so there were probably only two bikes with Ben Dover decals ever made. Here are the few pics I have of them, from about '78-'79. "Ben Dover" brand (early Bulgier)

At risk of degrading this fascinating read I can't help but say only because "Dick Power" was already used and a real builder in my hometown in Queens County NYC.
Apologies MODS.

Gee, we’re drifting into some weird byways for a “cool hubs” thread but…

IIRC, “Ben Dover” was the name used by Lockheed’s Ben Rich when traveling incognito. Ben Rich was second-in-command at the Skunk Works, just below the legendary Kelly Johnson.

Wicked sense of humor, these Cold Warriors.

Since this thread has drifted to hub toughness, my .02:
I knew a very strong and heavy rider (120/130kg) who did some long tours on hilly country. His load was heavy too. He was excited as he got his new Rohloff, but his gearing wasn't low enough. So he tried a very small chainring, way smaller than recommended by Rohloff. The hub worked flawlessly, but he had problems sometimes with the axle coming out of the dropouts under extreme torque.

Whoa ! ! That's crazy ! So you were the guy showing me around ! We had a good laugh about the Ben Dover when you showed it to me. That's really a blast from the past.
Talk about long ago and far away ......

I have at least one, no need for it (think it's laced to a Phil Wood front disc hub).
Will de-lace it if anyone wants it, free except for shipping.cost.

Otherwise, get a 24 with the spoke holes in the centre, drill 24 more.

And what happens to the valve hole?