Video: A Very rare find!
 

Hey guys, I was at Rich Gangl's shop and he was building more Eddy Merckx tribute bikes. PLUS he found a very rare bike!

John Haboush

Click this link if you like video

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fdf8c2efae.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b958ad4fba.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...acc131a407.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d8580aae9c.jpg

Video is too long for me right now. But hey, that's a great looking crank spider, modern road cranks just don't come close, I don't care if they are more aero. The drillium rings don't look too bad, but I have serious doubts about the drillium chain, I've seen factory ones with slots, but just that hole in the center of the link is a stress concentration and I predict those will fatigue fail between the hole and edge.

Great vid, John. Appreciate seeing Mr. Gangl's skill and attention to detail.

Great video and it reminded me of the Auburn show. It’s about 80 miles from me and I’m marking it on my calendar for this year.

Great video, I watched this morning instead of doing something for my sister. I had intended to just listen but unlike you usual interview videos you can't do that with this one.

I posted a comment on the youtubes that's really a series of questions "I don't understand what the differences were between the factory frame and Masi built frame? Did the Masi use "standard" diameter 531 instead of metric and that made it ride differently? did they use different gauges of 531? or the geometry was just different? Also why wouldn't Peugeot accommodate he needs?"

I have to admit that the point of tribute bikes totally escapes me. But, hey, rock on !

The Peugeot bikes that were being supplied to the professional team in the 1960s were straight stock PX 10s. There were no provisions to interrupt the normal factory production for a custom frame, which was the basis of the Masi. The video did not mention the fact that Tom Simpson was a teammate of Merckx at Peugeot in 1966 and 1967 at least until Simpson’s death in the Tour in July of 1967. Tom Simpson rode a custom Masi painted as a team Peugeot. I think it’s safe to assume that Masi was recommended to Merckx by Simpson. Peugeot had a pretty liberal policy for riders who desired a custom frame to supply a bare frame that they purchased themselves and the factory would paint it and apply decals. I have never seen any information as to the tubing weight of the Merckx Masi/Peugeot, but the PX10s were the standard Reynolds 531 that the French referred to as “0.7”…..There was also 0.5 and even 0.3 available at that time. I think it’s completely reasonable to assume that at east some of the tubes in the Masi were of lighter gauge, especially considering Merckx reputation on the weight of his bikes and components. These numbers refer to the approximate thickness in mm of the drawn sections of the tubes. The difference between a frame made from English diameter tubing and metric diameter tubing is small, and it is hard to imagine any discernible difference in ride, but there are people who claim that they can. I know of guys in France who lament that old metric tubes are no longer available. The fact that Merckx’ Peugeot was a Masi became pretty widely known when there was an article on the winning bike in some race or another in a French magazine or paper and it was reported as such. That’s not exactly why a company of the stature of Peugeot sponsored a team. That whole incident provided the impetus for the establishment of the Peugeot “Prestige” shop that opened in 1974 to provide very special custom bikes to the professional team-and eventually to retail customers on a very limited basis- and ended such nonsense a other bikes disguised by paint and decals.

That was a stadard model chain, I had one, lots of pros and amateurs raced those for years, never saw one break. Like all chains, they wore out long before they had a chance to fatigue.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...n-new-box.html

Agree mostly but they can come along when you least expect it.

I had a way too small Merckx 10th Anniversary that I got for a song, only reason I bought it and seller who was a friend made me promise not to sell it.

I told him I wouldn't unless another in my size came along and he kind of agreed.

Soon after, Steve at Millfield Velo in Australia offered up an amazing 10th tribute frame in my size for trade straight across.

The tribute frame was from a batch of mystery frames that were supposedly discovered in an abandoned warehouse with correct S/N's confirmed by our very own CyclesMakaron who was already aware of these and the story was completely legit .

The trade frame had been perfectly painted and matched but came with an also gorgeous way not correct carbon fork, also painted to match.

I struggled for a minute and knew the fork was still a minus and the frame was not the same as real 10th's but the paint alone was worth more than my too small frame so I pulled the trigger.

It arrived and was even more spectacular in person so I'm good with it. :twitchy:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c9b096f878.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8956f2ec7f.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...29c75817d3.jpg

I like some tribute bikes. I’m doing one now and it has some peculiar parts combo that are hard to find. The hunt is part oh the fun.


I like this video. Rich seals like a very genuine person and very talented.

I am so looking forward to the Auburn show this year!! its going to be a ton of fun!

John

Yes, Rich has become a friend. He's VERY soft spoken and humble. Great guy!
Have you checked with Seth at Golden Velo for the parts you're looking for?

Seth.w@goldenvelo.com
John Haboush

GREAT info! Thanks for adding to the conversation.

John

Ah thanks. I picked up a good race tri bike at low cost because the seller was way out of town, daughter had outgrown the frame size, and I discovered it needed a complete overhaul. I test rode it, within a couple feet the chain broke. I looked closely, the slotted chain links (I think was a dura-ace chain), quite a few of them had cracks in the links, one hard mash was enough to break any of them. I replaced the chain and general overhaul and cleanup, rode perfect.

I've seen that, still have the chain I think, check it out:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...26a0b2553e.jpg

I would say that chain is not rideable, even for 5 feet if there was one halfway hard pedal stroke. Seems safe to say, neither was yours, agreed?

That tells me it couldn't have gotten that way by riding. Logic tells me it must have happened since the last time a person pedaled on it. Cuz as soon as anyone rode it, it asploded

My working theory is embrittlement, possibly from soaking in Simple Green for a long time. I'm sure there are other cleaning products that can do that, but SG is one that I've heard credible reports that it can do it. IIRC, the idea is there's residual stress in the plates from having the pins peened, and there's some chemical that preferentially attacks the grain boundaris of highly stressed grains. Enough microcracks start and link up, next thing you know you have a macro crack. Sitting there in the cleaner, not even on a bike.

Or that might just be how I imagined it happening. Any real sientists or engineers want to chime in? Though this is the only chain I ever saw it on, I am curious to know the real reason.

Anyway it that's the cause then I would say you can't attribute that to fatigue, not how I think of that word anyway.

El Chaba Thank You great information. I'm sure there must have been geometry difference too but I guess that info is lost to history.

Always interesting to see the connection between Ugo de Rosa and Merckx.

I have never seen or heard if that Peugeot/Masi still exists. I think that it’s safe to assume that it had typical Masi geometry from the era. Faliero Masi and Cino Cinelli ushered in what we would consider “modern” Italian racing geometry which was much quicker steering than what was in fashion before to take full advantage of the greater speeds that characterized the racing of that time period over much improved road surfaces….very similar to DeRosa geometry in the 70s-90s. It would have been a much livelier bike in its handling than those mid 60s Peugeots…They were stable, but handled like wheelbarrows by comparison. I’ll add, ESPECIALLY while descending…

I believe that your theory is right on about the chain with multiple cracks. I myself came across one such chain, cracks discovered after it broke. Weird I thought!

There are actually several common cleaners/degreasers out there (such as the L.A. Awesome brand multi-purpose cleaner sold at Dollar Tree) which are quite strongly alkaline and so are far, far worse than Simple Green.
Some are almost as strong as oven cleaner, will take off clear coat in less than a minute (don't ask me how I know). :o

As for the holes in the side plates, sometimes it's the smallest-diameter holes that can effect a more-sudden change in the cross-section of the link, leading to an increase in fatigue rate that is far worse than any loss of tensile strength (where a tensile-limit test relieves stress concentration by yielding, unlike with fatigue).
And considering that the small chainring of these old bikes might be nearly twice the size of an mtb's inner ring, even a 30% loss of cross-sectional area might never be an issue!

Finally watched the video, and it was fun and educational! My fave was the fork crown on the Masi-Peugeot, that Rich had to fab from solid steel. I don't remember ever seeing it before, but Rich's research is awesome, he showed it in multiple photos. Just the documentation alone is a fine job, but then he had to make the dang thing, bravo.

He went through one evening and told me all that he does to learn about the bikes. Being that he has several "know it all" frame builder friends that help as well. Very fortunate to have such resources at our finger tips to learn all this stuff.

John Haboush
JVRBG

+1 watched video today, one day later and agree.
The docs, pictures, posters and stories showing the research and builds is amazing.
Why tributes, because Rich can and soon will have the 15 plus a first Merckx factory model rebuild tribute.

Rich and I have been friends ever since we went to the 1st titanium welding class taught by Gary Helfrich (who started Merlin Cycles) at UBI in 1992. It is an advantage to have a colleague to share information and to ask for advice. I've sent him some of the materials he has used in his tribute bikes. I've got some lugs I'll be sending him shortly. I keep telling him bulgie has an inventory of old stuff too.

You're one of the guys he's mentioned to me. What lugs are you sending him? for what bike? Curious.

Are you doing Philly Bike expo again? If so maybe we can review the painting process on video. We can find a way to make that interesting.

John Haboush