"Why incur additional suffering on 23s? Even if you reach your destination 2 minutes faster - at what cost?"

Cost? Only a Benefit!
(Ride time + Ride Distance + Ride elevation gain) / Degree of Difficulty (tire size) + Bonus (original equipment specification) = SCORE. :love:

Just a few comments on tire width, rolling resistance, etc. As for “testing” of rolling resistance, I am yet to see a truly scientific test. The “fastest” tires are invariably what the industry is selling at whatever point in time. When pros (like Pogacar”) are using tires in the 30-32 mm range, rolling resistance is one factor, but at professional racing speeds, aerodynamics become increasingly important. With the modern racing bike and its uber oversized tubing, there is a fairing effect that comes along with fatter tires. The wider tires are also useful to dampen the stiff ride that results from very stiff oversized carbon tubing….and there is likely a performance advantage as well. If you are riding a thinner tubed steel, aluminum or carbon frame, you may very well be better off with narrower tires.

Their tests show that tire width make no difference to rolling resistance, when compared at the same comfort level of tire pressure:
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...parison#drop45

Sure, aerodynamics play into efficiency once you are moving fast, so that's one reason to prefer narrow tires. Also, weight can be important, especially if you're climbing hills. Two tires of the same construction will have two different weights if they are of different widths. The wider (and heavier) tire will be harder to pedal uphill. This is why everyone has a limit to how wide a tire they're willing to use. I certainly don't want my tires to be as wide as car tires. The choice of tires is a compromise of various factors, and no single tire choice is perfect for everyone.

The trend towards wider tires in many realms of cycling is driven by the industry's breaththrough in making wide tires that are also light and supple. Many of us would not have wanted, say 32 mm tires, because they were so much heavier and slower than our 25 or 28 mm tires. But now they're not. They are still a little heavier, but that little extra weight is worth it for some of us.

And speed isn't everything. In a way, it's important, even to people not trying to go fast. A tire that CAN go fast for a strong rider is also a nice tire for slow riders because of its efficiency. It requires less effort than an inefficient tire.

My preferences….
*For my camping bike that often gets used on gravel paths such as The C&O towpath, GAP, etc…(once or twice a year) 32 mm clinchers w/tubes
*For my randonneuse, 25 mm tubulars or 26-28 mm supple clinchers (currently Grand Bois) w/ latex tubes
* For everything intended for fast individual or group rides, 23-25 mm tubulars. I also have a few 22 mm tubulars.
All of my tubulars are Veloflex, Michelin, Gommitalia, or Specialized with cotton (supple) casings.
As others have noted, for ride quality, a nice supple tubular has a comfort factor *at least* equivalent to a clincher 4-5 mm wider.

I am puzzled after following the points you make (many of which are quite reasonable-sounding), and seeing your conclusion. Is there an implicit "you care about speed a little, so you must want to race" in your assumption? If so, I have to say, that model does not fit me.

It seems some folks are uncomfortable putting wide tires on their classic road bikes. Am I a bad person to fat tire shame people? I’m trying to help them. 👨‍⚕️

Need to get you on some PNW country roads and gravel, where there’s no shame in riding fat tires.

I figure it shows respect for the design of the frame builder to put the largest possible tire in there. Putting a too thin tire with all of that extra space under the fork and rear brake and between the chainstays is basically telling the builder they got it wrong, right?

Obviously they built in that spacing for a reason!!

Interesting takes. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas which have been shared for the most part. It's also what makes cycling fun: modifying based on needs/personal preference.

I am a Clyde, and I am not as young as I used to be. And I ride fixed gear a ton. I put the widest supple tires that fit on almost everything. That ranges from 25mm to 45mm on my newest bike.

The 30-35 is probably my favorite. You can still find some lightweight tires in this range, and the width makes for still fast rolling as well as versatile for most terrains outside of the extremes. I don't find the ride dead on 30s compared to 25s. At the appropriate tire pressure of course.

Gravel => Gravel Bike and gravel tires? I'm looking into it. Meanwhile, yesterday's ride was 25 miles and 2000 ft on an "85 Ironman with NOS 23mm GP 4000s at 110 psi. I am ashamed to have a 13-28 FW but in just ten more days I get the "take it easy" monkey off my back and on goes the 13-24 but that is another "What's your favorite..." thread.

Yeah, if we only all had those sweet smooth SoCal roads that Classtime gets to ride on. At this point of winter, the roads around here look and feel like the potholes are only slightly surrounded by actual pavement.

On the Pegasus I am putting together, I bought some Gravel King 40mm tires. I like the supple ride of bigger tires, and the Pegasus still has some room to spare.

Welllllll ... Frame alignment was not what it is these days. And wheels went out of true a lot, by a lot.

This is where forums like this actually help. My case in point was with my favorite road bike. It came to me with severely worn, aged and rotted 28's, which were really crowded, especially in the rear triangle. A little looking around here found a link to some old catalogues, and lo and behold, my bike was designed and built for 25's. In fact, that's what they shipped from the factory with.

My mixte came with some cheap 32mm folders, which were (to put it kindly) incredibly sluggishly hard to pedal with, and extremely mushy in corners at speed. I rode on them less than a day- just long enough to ride it to the LBS and get some higher quality w/o's in 28mm. I haven't looked back since.

-D.S.

I was just being pithy. Though I do find myself leaning toward the 28-32 range on anything I can. 25 is doable with Vittoria Zaffiro’s, which are the best bang for the buck out there.

Ooh, good to know! I will need tires again eventually.

Years ago, Vittoria made a tire called the Voyager Hyper which people here recommended highly. I bought a pair from an outfit in the UK. They arrived, and I was very disappointed because they were heavy and the treads were thick. I put them on, and they were like magic. Go figure. In fact, I still have them. Too bad they're out of production now. I have them in 35 or 37 mm width, I can't remember which.