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Well, if 'by the weekend' I meant '10 PM on Sunday night' I guess I met the deadline.
Granted, I haven't used that definition of 'to meet a deadline' since college, but hey... worked then, works now, neh? Took me a few days. Hacking on it as the mood struck, hitting a snag, taking a pause, reading some stuff, doing something else... you know how these things go. Accumulate parts. (22t cog, shift cable, chain, Bikesmith Designs Raleigh-specific cotters, new spoke. (276 mm, 14g, after 1 failed attempt... 306mm was 100% wrong.)) Obtain wondrous tool from wonderful people. (Pass-around cotter press.) Remove cotters n' cranks. Remove 18t cog. Replace broken spoke. (After the Saga of the Spoke Length.) Install 22t cog. Figure out weirdo washer stack & install rear wheel. Welcome back, cotters! (This process involved much fear and trepidation.) Install shift cable. (This is really weird and quite intimidating, especially the part where you cut the housing to length.) Mock up chain and cut to length. Tighten chain and lock in rear wheel. Ummm... It appears that I have measure the chain with the wheel all the way back in the dropouts. Oops. (In my defense, I haven't dealt with a nutted rear axle in over 15 years. One forgets.) Reset rear wheel at from of dropout, mock up chain and cut to length. (Wise man say: "Measure thrice, cut twice.") Adjust shifting, which is light-years easier than with the old, borked, damned-near-as-old-as-I-am cable. Ride, wRench, Repeat and fresh pix tomorrow. --Shannon |
Originally Posted by ehcoplex
(Post 23702297)
Possibly peak utilitarian human-powered mobility!
There were cheaper bikes, and fancier bikes, but none beat it for function-per-dollar. I kinda liked the self-adjusting brake levers. Yeah they weren't perfect but a valiant effort towards real value-added, making brakes work longer before needing a mechanic, for the majority of riders who will never lift a finger to maintain their bike. Enthusiasts like OP should of course bypass that feature, but I admire them for trying. I wonder if your bike is a "Ltd" model. I forget details but they were a few bux cheaper and the main difference I remember was the mattress saddle. I assembled tons of them (maybe literally) but I wan't taking notes. Even at age 16 I was a bike snob, dreaming of a Frejus or even a Masi, so working on Raleigh 3-speeds was just my "day job". But I think maybe the only place it said Ltd was on the chainguard. Someone here will remember... Here's the catalog shot of the '73 Ltd. They don't show green as an option. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6f2c74dea4.jpg Hmm, they also don't show the self-adjusting brake levers, so maybe that means your has to be a Sports. |
Originally Posted by ShannonM
(Post 23708696)
Reset rear wheel at from of dropout, mock up chain and cut to length. (Wise man say: "Measure thrice, cut twice.")
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Originally Posted by ShannonM
(Post 23702344)
And there's a broken (drive side, of course) spoke.
The internet machine sez 290-292mm is the length. (36 holes, 3x) Does that sound about right? --Shannon |
Some very good points about the practical use value of these old bikes. I tend to think of the rod brake roadsters as the Ford Model T and the cable brake Sports/similar as the Ford Model A of the bike world. They gave the average person all the basic features needed to get around in an affordable, repairable, and durable package.
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When last we left, I had just completed the workstand portion of the work. (Mostly, as it turned out.)
The first test ride revealed a badly slipping seat clamp. As in 'insta-wedgie'. Back home, back into the stand. Reef on clamp bolts. Attempt test ride. Shifting is pretty borked, but I give it about 3 miles in 2nd. This ride is mostly about the cotters, after all. The new cotters pressed in very smoothly. Too smoothly? https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f83165cdfa.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d38e6e6d4.jpg I e-mailed the pictures to Bikesmith. He thought that it was in the 'likely won't be a problem, but it's on the margin' realm, so he's sending me two unfitted ones with instructions on filing. (Dude is awesome, and everyone should always buy his cotters. And his tools, which are also killer.) Rode down to Jack London Square and took pictures: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e38e82e965.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d7dddfc5d5.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f63eb74f3c.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2581e164f3.jpg By the time I got home, the saddle was pretty nose-up again. Further bolt reefage did not avail. So I stole a trick from the Rivendell catalog, and used a strap. They use a long nylon strap to back up a Wald basket on a small front rack. I used a nylon toe strap to pull the nose of the saddle downward against the 'leverage' at the rear. This works quite well: https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c529625e16.jpg Start slightly nose-down, pull the strap as tight as you can, sit on the saddle a few times, tighten tighter than you can, ride bike. Saturday, I'll go to the co-op and see if they've got a one-bolt alloy seatpost that'll fit. (25.4mm, I think.) If not, I guess it's Uno time. And how do I like it? A lot. It's a very different ride than I've ridden before. Slower. Heavier, even on flat ground. Smooth... almost plush. Stable to just short of a fault. It doesn't turn, it sweeps. It doesn't accelerate, it accumulates velocity. Everything takes longer and requires a bit of planning. Sudden changes in input do not result in sudden changes in trajectory... but it's not like the bike rejects them, it just ignores you and goes about doing what it was doing. Ridden as it wants to be, it's all very composed and gentlemanly. Stately, one might say. Unhurried. (Determinedly so... the bike's not in a hurry, so you aren't either.) Things I already don't like: Surprisingly few. The brakes kinda suck, but new good cables/housing/pads should reduce that to tolerability in the dry, and if it's raining, I stay home or take the bus. (Alloy wheels will happen someday, but that day is not soon.) The stem is shorter, and the bars are narrower that I'd like. Again, not something I'm going to rush out and change. The biggest (actually smallest) issue is the pedals. They're just too small, and the bearing bulges hit me right where my weight wants to be. The GT that I'm selling has some Oddesey Grandstand BMX pedals on it, and while they're ugly, they're also wide. Might swap 'em in if the GT doesn't sell right away. Overall, a big, big win. I spent $120 on the bike, plus about fifty bucks so far on the refresh. Once I do the brakes, it'll be more like ~$200ish. None of this makes me sad. --Shannon |
That is one sweet ride. And a large frame, as well.
My eyes are the color of your frame, green with envy. |
On road bikes with seat clamps (on a straight seat post), we put the clamp behind the post. On these, we put them in front. That puts the saddle in a better position with respect to the crank, and it prevents the slippage you're suffering, partly or fully. You may need a new clamp, but first, flip it around. The reason it is normally in front is that the seat tube angle is more slack and puts the saddle back.
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
(Post 23708827)
Some very good points about the practical use value of these old bikes. I tend to think of the rod brake roadsters as the Ford Model T and the cable brake Sports/similar as the Ford Model A of the bike world. They gave the average person all the basic features needed to get around in an affordable, repairable, and durable package.
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Took the Sports out for a nice 16 miles.
The bike and I are getting to know each other a bit better with each ride, and the more I learn, the more I like. On the 2-3% drag from Oakland up to UC Berkeley, the 46x22 main gear is just about great. I cruise in the same gear on the '71 Competition, and I often wish it was a 21. On the slower, heavier, chillin'-er Sports, it's pretty sweet. What's more interesting is that the Sports not only wants to be ridden slower, it wants to be pedaled slower. Especially on the slight downhills. On the Comp, the 46x18 is sometimes just a bit tall to spin, and a lower cadence feels really weird on a drop-bar bike. On the Sports, 3rd gear is just fine in those situations... feels more like a slow turn than a square plod, if you get the distinction. I'm getting more used to the handling. I took it on some short packed-dirt sections, and it just longboarded its way through. Didn't even feel like it slowed the bike much... slowish in, slowish through, slowish out. Raleigh don't care about your dirt road. Raleigh goes wherever Raleigh damned well pleases, however Raleigh damned well pleases. I am going to want to update the cockpit. Longer stem, wider bars, better brake levers, different grips. The whole ball o' wax, actually. I don't actively dislike any of it. (Except the never-to-be-sufficiently-damned brake lever clamps, whose corners are dound and determined to just barely scrape the insides of my thumbs. I've taken the file to them, and I hope it improves things a bit.) The grips aren't awful, it's just that they're a bit too narrow for my oversized-for-my-arms hands, and I'm learning that I don't like finger grooves on my bicycle grips. (Pistols are a different story.) The bars are a little bit too narrow. The stem is a little bit too short. And like that. I'll have to redo the brake cables anyway, so that's when I'll change out the bars. In my recently liberated box o' parts, I found a full set of Suntour/Dia Compe Kool Stop salmon inserts, and the Fuji is stripped down to the frame, so I'm going to try to put them on this bike. I figure it can't make the brakes any worse, right? All in all, this has been a lot of fun! --Shannon |
ShannonM
Glad to see you are getting on well with this new ride. The subtle changes you want should not change the bike much other than make it more comfortable for you. Good on ya for keeping this one on the road. Smiles, MH |
Originally Posted by Mad Honk
(Post 23710456)
ShannonM
Glad to see you are getting on well with this new ride. The subtle changes you want should not change the bike much other than make it more comfortable for you. Good on ya for keeping this one on the road. Smiles, MH 30 years ago, I'd have hated it. --Shannon |
Bought this today. Needs TLC and a bag of miracles, parts, tires, front wheel replacement... but it's a 23" frame! I saw one of these on CL last year, but didn't go for it. I was trying to kick the habit, but it's been gnawing on me ever since. Sometimes a nice leisurely ride on a nice old 3-speed can be quite pleasant.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d5662715f.jpg |
Originally Posted by cycleheimer
(Post 23710869)
Bought this today. Needs TLC and a bag of miracles, parts, tires, front wheel replacement... but it's a 23" frame! I saw one of these on CL last year, but didn't go for it. I was trying to kick the habit, but it's been gnawing on me ever since. Sometimes a nice leisurely ride on a nice old 3-speed can be quite pleasant.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d5662715f.jpg |
Originally Posted by cycleheimer
(Post 23710869)
Bought this today. Needs TLC and a bag of miracles, parts, tires, front wheel replacement... but it's a 23" frame! I saw one of these on CL last year, but didn't go for it. I was trying to kick the habit, but it's been gnawing on me ever since. Sometimes a nice leisurely ride on a nice old 3-speed can be quite pleasant.
I presume we'll be seeing this in the 3-speed gigathread, neh? --Shannon |
So I was thinking about the terrible brakes, and pondering the cheapest, ideally free-est, way to improve them.
I'd put the old Weinmann pads from the Competition's OG brakes on the rear. (Look on page 1 for immediate enlightenment as to why.) So I figured on doing the same thing up front. Off to the closet. (Of bike parts, you perv!!) And in amongst the piles of parts, something I'd forgotten I had: Kool Stop salmon pads for DiaCompe/SunTour holders. And the calipers they were intended for are now sitting in ziploc bags, having been removed when I stripped the League Fuji down to the frame. Hmmm. After fighting a battle-to-the-death with the old, hella-hardened pads and the holders of same, I now had Kool Stop salmon pads on the DL-22. Off for a test ride. They squealed in the hallway. The old 'dime under the trailing edge' trick worked great out back. Up front? Not a bit of it. Filed a taper into the pad blocks? Nope. Got it down from 'howls of hell the instant the pads touch the rim' to 'loud shriek just before stoppage,' but I'd hoped for better. Further ponderage revealed that the right front pad was hitting tail-first, and the left was pretty square. I'd already done everything else, so I guess it's time to bend the caliper. Something I've never done, and which has always terrified me. Still, it's 'The All-Steel Bicycle', right? Seems like a good place for a first-timer to start. And so it proved. 1 full-sized flathead screwdriver and some of the old 'brute force & ignorance' later, and behold! (Behear?) Silent stoppage. Squealless slowing. And better braking. --Shannon |
These stories of how best to enjoy old bikes are great. I had a similar experience with an early 70s Motobecane Mirage, with the steel wheels of the time. I was surprised at how fun it was to ride, as long as you let the bike set its own pace. A fun bike, but in the end not that well suited to hilly Seattle.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...73ea8db35.jpeg |
Originally Posted by ShannonM
(Post 23711026)
So I was thinking about the terrible brakes, and pondering the cheapest, ideally free-est, way to improve them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/306710139529 That size is sometimes called 650a, the French name. Old English name is E.A.3, but most tires don't have that on the sidewall anymore. The ISO size is 590. Not that you need new tires too, but if you fall in love with this bike, she might deserve Panaracer Col de la Vie tires. You can probably use 650b rims/tires too, ISO 584, (6 mm smaller diameter, 3 mm smaller radius) so they need longer reach on the brake. Do-able if your brakes have 3 mm of slot available in the downward direction. More tire choices that way. I know, what with needing new spokes too, and a wheelbuilder if that's not you, that's a big-ticket upgrade. I love spending other people's money! But if you haven't tried steel-rim braking in the rain yet, you might not appreciate how much better alu rims are. Start applying the brakes a lot sooner than you're used to, first big downhill with wet rims. Apologies if any/all of that is old news, and you're fully familiar, But others reading the thread my benefit from some of that. |
Hey, bulgie !
Yeah, the aluminum rim swap is a thing-that-will-happen. Eventually. (My bike is 36h front & rear, so that's a bunch easier.) When I get there, which won't be anytime soon, (because other projects and broke,) I'll make the 650A/B decision. The bike will take either. The 650A CR-18s have the advantage of being a spoke-for-spoke swap with the steel rims. 650B rim & tire availability cuts the other way, of course. Plus, I'll have already built a pair for the Hercules. (First wheelbuild in about 20 years!) Oddly, I've been wondering if long-term cheap-tires might actually be around longer in 590... lots of Raleighs & Schwinns around, and they'll outlive us all. 650B/27.5/584 wasn't actually a common bike-shop-bike size for very long, plus it already died the death once. But, yeah... alloy rims are just better. (And knocking a few pounds off the wheels would not suck.) --Shannon |
Originally Posted by ShannonM
(Post 23711112)
Oddly, I've been wondering if long-term cheap-tires might actually be around longer in 590... lots of Raleighs & Schwinns around, and they'll outlive us all. 650B/27.5/584 wasn't actually a common bike-shop-bike size for very long, plus it already died the death once.
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Originally Posted by ShannonM
(Post 23711112)
Oddly, I've been wondering if long-term cheap-tires might actually be around longer in 590... lots of Raleighs & Schwinns around, and they'll outlive us all. 650B/27.5/584 wasn't actually a common bike-shop-bike size for very long, plus it already died the death once.
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I agree. I'm not overly concerned about 650A (590mm) tires being available.
The 650 size (597mm) is endangered, having only one widely-produced tire (Kenda) available today. I did see a second option available in England on a smaller scale but shipping is prohibitively expensive on them. If I had to convert my 597mm bikes to something, I guess I'd swap down to 590mm. It's the closest size. |
I like how this story is unfolding. I think I agree that the Sports likes to be pedaled more slowly (slowlier?). I suspect pedaling cadences were slower back in the day. And that would explain the high gearing bikes had. I wandered through France and the British Isles in 1981 and watched people and their bikes. I remember old women on single speed bikes doing errands, and their gearing looked really high. C'est la vie!
My way of bending calipers is to grab the arm with an adjustable wrench. I've done it literally hundreds of times, and I've never broken one. I hear that Universal brakes won't withstand that because of the more brittle alloy they used. But it's fine with Weinmann and MAFAC brakes and all steel brakes. Steel is very forgiving, and if you bend it too far, just bend it back. |
Originally Posted by noglider
(Post 23711324)
I suspect pedaling cadences were slower back in the day. And that would explain the high gearing bikes had.
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Originally Posted by noglider
(Post 23711324)
I like how this story is unfolding. I think I agree that the Sports likes to be pedaled more slowly (slowlier?). I suspect pedaling cadences were slower back in the day. And that would explain the high gearing bikes had. I wandered through France and the British Isles in 1981 and watched people and their bikes. I remember old women on single speed bikes doing errands, and their gearing looked really high. C'est la vie!.
They are all 22" frames but some have 26" wheels and some 28", for some reason nobody has the seat post correctly set, they just leave them right down in the tube and have very bent knees at the top of the pedal stroke which makes me cringe. Some of the names are familiar, Hercules, BSA even Raleigh but most are Hero or Avon and some are unbranded but still identical. Each country has its own locally produced models such as Lumala in Sri Lanka and the Chinese brand Flying Pidgeon is the same, these bikes are still the work horse of the world. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...82979b181.webp |
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