Shoes and Clips
 

I am considering a local time-trial series this season just for exercise. Short 18 mile route. They have a vintage class that requires non-aero components, friction shifting and no clipless pedals. That last one is my challenge. I have an old pair of MKS Sylvan pedals with clips and straps. My question is what shoe should I use? I use to have an old pair of Avias with a single-grooved cleat. Is that supposed to work with clips or am I supposed to use a completely flat bottom? A new rabbit-hole to explore!

I had good luck with these:

https://www.performancebike.com/soma...ppgS9gS8JFBJZT

and these pedals:

https://www.performancebike.com/mks-...ppgS9gS8JFBJZT

I've been using these Crank Brothers Stamp Street shoes for almost a year now, both with toe clips and with flats. Good stuff.

I've also got a pair of the Five Ten Freeriders. (About 5 years old now, but I didn't ride for about 3 of them... serious health problems.) Love 'em.

And, I just got a pair of Shimano SH-AM503s. (25 bucks at the co-op, in box, size 48... heck yeah I bought 'em!)

That list is from softer to stiffer. Also from smaller to bigger.

The Crank Bros are slim, especially in the toe box. (Top to bottom, not 'narrow' like you'd think of shoes.) Stiff enough on an MKS Sylvan track, but just barely. Best for walking. I've had actual, real-shoe-shop, fitted leather insoles put in. This is something that every foot in every shoe will benefit from, although they're not cheap. (I think I paid like $40, and I couldn't tell you the brand, but it was a year ago. The shop is more important than either.)

Five Tens are a little fatter, a little heavier, and noticably and usefully stiffer. Quite walkable, although you wouldn't want to do it all day. (They were as close as I've found to a 'ride to work, work all day, ride home' shoe, before I gave up because no such shoe exists. Or can ever exist. You're gonna have to change shoes. Thou must deal.)

The Shimanos are by far the stiffest. (Makes sense, SPD cleats are tiny.) They're also the biggest, so even with MKS LL deep toe clips, my feet are too far back on the Sylvans. The MKS Urban Platforms will hopefully tell a different tale. They're not difficult to walk in, although you probably won't enjoy it much.

If you have an older pair of road shoes, it's not hard to find slotted cleats for 3-bolt shoes. (Leave the straps loose at first... slotted cleats are kinda weird at first. Once your feet learn what to do, they're not an issue.)

Good luck on race day!

--Shannon

* The real C&V answer is 'buy an 80's TT 'funny bike.'

Single-grooved cleats are made for that style pedal. The groove drops over the rear lip of the pedal, then the straps are tightened to hold the shoes to the pedals - just don't forget to loosen them before you come to a stop. If you're used to clipless pedals, you may find it a bit difficult to keep smooth-bottom shoes on the pedals until you've had a bit of practice, especially in a timed event.
You can purchase slotted cleats that fit shoes that take Look cleats at Yellow Jersey, Ltd. in Wisconsin.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c60d258d21.jpg

Great to hear your local series has a vintage category. That can be a lot of fun without much expense and the technological rabbit hole that is most time trialling these days.

Where are you coming from in joining this series? Have you raced previously? What shoes and pedals do you usually use and what are you most comfortable and efficient with?

Do you have any competitive aspirations at all within this series?

Personally, I’d want a rigid-soled late generation shoe with integrated cleats, rather than vintage leather-soled shoes with tack-on cleats, but others are just as happy with the former, or with no cleats at all.

What size cycling shoe do you wear? Narrow, average or wide fitting? Most old cycling shoes are worth about the cost of postage these days and people here often have many pairs kicking around…

A quick note on MKS Sylvan pedals - some have no circular shoulder between pedal spanner flats and the crankarm. If so, pedal washers are a good idea to protect the crankarms from the irregular pedal axle digging into them. I can dig out a pair of pedals if a photograph is worth these hundred words…

Vintage cleated shoes can also be their own rabbit hole…

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...655c31337.jpeg

I’m normally a B group, shop ride guy riding vintage steel with STI and Look Keo clipless pedals. I love to represent C&V in a lively shop ride. The time-trial runs by my neighborhood every week and I figured why not try it. I’ll give it my all but have no delusions of being competitive. I’m fine with the friction downtube shifting but the pedals and toe clips will be an adjustment. After reading the posts above, I may start out with something like the Five Tens or Giro Deed since they make good townie shoes as well. I knew I’d want something stiffer than my Vans. Maybe I move up to a road shoe with slotted cleat when I see my times improve.

In my experience, the important thing (if going without slotted cleats) is a stiff sole— not so much for power transfer but to prevent hot spots and associated discomfort due to such localized pressure on the bottoms of your feet. Aftermarket hard plastic insoles can do the trick or you can make some out of Kydex. Pedaling in circles also helps. An hour of only mashing gets painful with soft shoes.

That sounds like a wise and progressive approach. I use Look Keos as well and need relatively rigid road shoes with cleats to match their security and efficiency when using clips and straps for longer and faster rides, but it’s the getting started and getting out there that counts… look forward to photos!

I like Five 10's and have used them with toe clips. I would miss my old leather soled shoes with a clip, only because they are skinny enough to easily fit the toe clip and strap without having to reach down to move the strap each time I start up. With the Five 10 Freeriders they are wider, more comfortable and you can walk when you get off the bike. They work best with a wider pedal like the Sylvan's. My favorite pedal now.

I think you have a good plan plonz . You can't go wrong with Five 10 and see how you like time trialing on them and if you feel you need to go to a vintage racing shoe then go for it. I wish I still had my old racing shoes just for the once a year vintage ride.

I got them when I was in Boston. I bought the clip like the ones Bad Lag shows above to nail on the bottom of the shoe and rode for about a 3 weeks to get a indication (line) on the bottom to know where to position the slot on the sole. I brought the shoes and clip to a Shoemaker in the Prudential Center. And older gentleman, probably the age that I am now. I asked him if he knew how to do it. He said something like "no problem. I know how to do these". I got them back a few days later. They were perfect.

I have used toeclips and straps since the late 1960s, with no plans to "update." Since I can no longer get some of my favorite vintage shoes, I currently use Giro Rumble VRs, which have a stiff, very walkable, rubber sole. These are perfect for my errand rides to the gym or grocery store, and fast enough for my exercise/pleasure rides.

Just want to throw in the option of using campy triomphe pedals.

With cages of the appropriate size they are very smooth without feeling bulky.

Have 2 pair, use them with vans.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e713475d08.jpg

But for a tt of any kind, fit and comfort are pretty important. anything youʻd feel a little rub or poke on a typical ride needs to get ironed out if you want to put effort into it.

The Triomphe pedals are one of my favorites. The broad platform provides good support for soft-soled street shoes while still allowing for using slotted cleats and real bike shoes. The internals are the same as Gran Sport and Victory, the cones and axles are not identical to Record, but are functionally interchangeable, and even third party internals from Gipiemme, Ofmega, or Miche will also work in a pinch. The only downside is the proprietary toeclip, but they're interchangeable with Victory and C-Record, and maybe others.

I LOVED those shoes. Wore them to threads and still have some of the cleat bits rattling around, as if they'd ever be needed again.

If you have a pair of look-compatible road shoes then the Classic Velo cleats for clips and straps is the answer

They are a straightforward bolt-on on to "modern" shoes and work great with toe clips and straps.



https://curvecustom.com/products/cla...gG5sPOqJjEYkwN

I wish my local TT had a vintage category! I would win it every week because nobody else ever shows up on a steel bike LOL.

I hate clipless shoes and pedals with a passion and will only ride them on the velodrome. All my other riding including the TT (10 miles) is in stiff-ish laced Diadora runners, MKS pedals with clips and straps. No cleats.

18 miles of continuous effort would probably be just about my limit, though. My training rides are usually under 20 miles, with a couple quick breaks off the bike walking. When I get to about 30 miles my feet do start to complain and need rest.

Very interesting but aren't they just as bad for walking as clipless systems?

Yes, of course! :) But the OP was asking about how to be rules-compliant for a time trial competition that called for "vintage" setups. Presumably the OP doesn't plan to walk very much in a time trial. ;)

Aware of that, I was asking in the context of post #17

One caution in using modern bike shoes with slotted cleats and toeclips is that the toe box on modern bike shoes tends to be taller than those of vintage bike shoes, and may require a taller toeclip to allow the shoe to fit. Look for MTB-style "deep" toeclips if you run into this problem. Mikashima (MKS) and others offer such toeclips. If your pedals require a proprietary toeclip, you may have to change either the shoes or the pedals to make things work.

OK -- for your case where you want to walk a couple of times every 20 miles or so in a non-race environment your current setup of stiffish non-cleated Diadoras with clips and straps will likely be better for you, if not for the OP's desired use. :thumb:

I've done this with some basic Shimano road shoes quite a while ago. Worked pretty well if the front velcro strap was minimal. In fact, I'd consider doing it again if I could just find some suitable shoes. Is there anything in production now (and available via a bike shop so sizing can be checked) that would fit in a toe clip?

I still have some of the Shimano cleats that I used to use. These were Look cleats that had a shallow slot. This was from the days when a lot of folks were still using clips and straps, so Shimano wanted to sell shoes with cleats that most folks could use. I dremel'ed the slots a bit deeper and cut off the front bolt attachment ... it just got in the way.

https://www.flickr.com/photo_downloa...ret=62f207537b

btw, if anyone is looking for used vintage shoes in size 46, I've got a few in pretty good shape that need a new home.

Steve in Peoria

I think that Classic Velo Retro Cleat is exactly what I’m interested in. I’m probably more serious about this TT than I let on. 18 miles is not a problem for me, with or without clips. Once I get out there, I’m sure I’ll want to be as “locked in” as possible. The retro cleats on a pair of Giro Empire lace ups might just be the ticket for form and function. Thanks all!

Now you’re talking. Keep us posted…!