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Vintage Weight Weenie.

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Old 10-16-05, 05:07 PM
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Vintage Weight Weenie.

A joke in the other weight-related thread, but I realized that I really am a weight weenie, and have been since i first got my butt kicked going up hill. So...let's build a hypothetical lightest bike - and put a cap on the parts of, say, 1982, because that is CR's minimum age break.

I think we should start with a Teledyne Titan frame. Is this the lightest?
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Old 10-16-05, 08:06 PM
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Agree on the teledyne.
Fiamme Yellow rims shod with clement seta silks
Are we allowing drillium?
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Old 10-16-05, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lotek
Are we allowing drillium?
I think we should allow anything that you can find on eBay today, or have a remote chance of finding. I dunno how we're gonna say whether a Zeus or a Campy or an OMAS drillium crankset wins the lightweight category, unless first-hand experience could be found. Good stories are always the tiebreaker!
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Old 10-16-05, 08:42 PM
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The early Speedwell may have been lighter at 3 pounds 5 ozs. with fork & headset. The Teledyne was nicer looking though. If you're a steel lover, a 753 Team Pro. If you're talking Columbus, Record or KL tubes.

Fiamme Ergal, Mavic Argent 7, Or 7, or CX18, Super Champ Performance or Médaille D' Or, Nisi Sludi 290, or if the rider's really light (are we building a roadie or trackie?), maybe some Schereen Weltmeister or Hi-E rims.
Pino, Hi-E or Weyless hubs, early Zeus 2000 or OMAS Ti if you like tougher.

TA Cyclotouriste cranks with a single ring, or early Zeus 2000. Super Record or OMAS or Cobra Ti BB, with OMAS bolts. Jubilee rear derailleur. Depending on brand and vintage preferred; Zeus 2000, Regina Record, or maybe Maillard (the lightest) alloy freewheel. Regina Titanio chain.

If you don't mind stupid light and disposable, a Nylfor headset... Otherwise, a Super Record or OMAS work fine. Not sure if these were around before '82, but the Stronglight B10 headset (like A9, but plastic cups) was also very light.

TTT stem & SL bars; no tape, no hoods. OMAS stem bolt. Weyless seat post. TTT SL saddle, or maybe Cobra with the alloy rails. If later vintage preferred, a Concor SL. Super Record (Ti spindle) or early Zeus 2000 (Ti spindle) pista pedals, with Christophe Z or ALE clips & Binda Extra straps. I don't remember which model, but the small CLB brakes & CLB cables. Once you start with drillium, everything can change. What size are the drill bits...?
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Old 10-16-05, 08:50 PM
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a little off topic (me, wander?) but a cool site -

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/

not vintage tho...
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Old 10-16-05, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy

(are we building a roadie or trackie?),

Once you start with drillium, everything can change. What size are the drill bits...?
I think road - the picture gets pretty narrow with track stuff - and I think that I may want to start collecting whatever we decide is lightest - finding this obscure stuff could keep me off the streets for a long time...and the finished product would be really, really cool. I like hotrods better than the original stuff, really.

Drillium is spiffy, but I remember several disasters and near disasters in the pack with over-modified parts. Maybe we should stick to manufacturer's original spec'ed parts.
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Old 10-16-05, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by luker
...I like hotrods better than the original stuff, really.
...Maybe we should stick to manufacturer's original spec'ed parts.
I think you can get it down to sub 17# with well picked production stuff, and still have durability (so long as you're not over 185#)...
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Old 10-17-05, 08:25 AM
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ok, lets make this a reachable project for luker. No drillium.
Road bike only.

I suggest Modolo Kronos brake calipers (no one ever said it had
to actually stop a bike), brake levers and shift levers.
Campy Ti 6 speed freewheel
American Classic Ti bottom bracket (is this OT for this bike?)

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Old 10-17-05, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by lotek
...I suggest Modolo Kronos brake calipers (no one ever said it had
to actually stop a bike), brake levers and shift levers.
Campy Ti 6 speed freewheel
American Classic Ti bottom bracket (is this OT for this bike?)

marty
I think all of those are post '82.
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Old 10-17-05, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by lotek
Agree on the teledyne.
Fiamme Yellow rims shod with clement seta silks
Are we allowing drillium?
Teledyne, Fiamme, drillium...

This is sounding like Lewis Caroll, "Twas brillig and the slithey toves, Did gyre and gimbal in the wabe.."

Guess I don't have the jargon yet.
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Old 10-17-05, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy
I think all of those are post '82.
TOG,

The Modolo Kronos is featured on CR site. I didn't think Dale would
allow if OT for CR, my mistake. I was trying to find a date for release
of this but have had no luck.
ok, I'm back to fiamme yellows and clement seta silk.

no wonder I'm not a vintage weight weenie. . .

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Old 10-17-05, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by dbg
Teledyne, Fiamme, drillium...
Teledyne - a frame manufacturer that made ridiculously lightweight frames in limited quantities (I think they used a titanium alloy).
Fiamme - an Italian manufacturer of rims. The ones mentioned were about the lightest tubular rims they made.
Drillium - refers to the 80's fad of taking stock parts and drilling holes (sometimes lots of holes) in them to make them lighter - hopefully without compromising their strength to the point where they were unsafe to use.
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Old 10-17-05, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by lotek

Campy Ti 6 speed freewheel
OK, let's swap the Campy for a Zeus 2000 alloy freewheel. Had one in my hands yesterday, very very light! And pre-82 for sure.
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Old 10-17-05, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by luker
A joke in the other weight-related thread, but I realized that I really am a weight weenie, and have been since i first got my butt kicked going up hill. So...let's build a hypothetical lightest bike - and put a cap on the parts of, say, 1982, because that is CR's minimum age break.

I think we should start with a Teledyne Titan frame. Is this the lightest?

I don't know about the Teledyne frame (sounds light), but after my memory slowly revved up, I remembered an old 'Cycling' article (25th november 1978) about a very light Pete Matthews (beautiful bike BTW) build for TT use. Frame is 531 SL. Parts are: Zeus hubs, Mavic Medaille d'Or 28 spoke rims, Edco ti headset, Saba Record Puma saddle, SR customized seatpin, Zeus 200o chainset with 53 ring, Zeus 2000 ti track pedals, Barum G5 tubulars, TTT Superlight handlebars, SR Royal Extra Superlight stem, lightweight bolts for chainset, Weinmann 500 sidepull brakes, Huret Jubilee gears, Suntour Cyclone gear levers, Everest Oro slotted chain, Maillard 700 Dural freewheel.
It weighs between 15 and 16 pounds, depending on the sort of tubulars used. How much would that be in grammes?
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Old 10-17-05, 12:08 PM
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Remember the Vittoria ti pedals with the delrin bodies?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vittoria-Super-L...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old 10-17-05, 12:22 PM
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And this should prove helpful:

http://www.campyonly.com/history/cat...ic_catalog.pdf

Campagnolo alloy freewheel introduced in 1982 BTW
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Old 10-17-05, 12:36 PM
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Not sure of the date on the intro but, Columbus made an extremely light tubeset called 'air' (I've got one of the frames here ready to be built up and it is much lighter than any of my other frames). This was made during the first aero craze I think and that would put it around 84.
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Old 10-17-05, 01:53 PM
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wouldn't a Vitus have been in that same weight range as the Teledyne?
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Old 10-17-05, 01:53 PM
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The lightest of the vintage production frames were the carbon fibre Exxon Grafteks and Mossbergs. These were available by the late 1970s and had advertised weights up to a full pound under the advertised weight of the Teledyne Titan.

If you want something reliable, the obvious choice is the Klein. The advertised frame weight was marginally less than a Titan and they were available in the late 1970s. Of course many of you will dismiss the Klein, purely on the basis that it is TIG welded, oversize aluminum and was the design that would lead to the ultimate demise of steel as the material of choice for bicycle frames.
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Old 10-17-05, 01:55 PM
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Huret Jubilee derailleurs
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Old 10-17-05, 02:49 PM
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I think I'd go with Ishiwata .019 for the frame. That or 753. In 1982, I'd even have trusted Hi-E wheels - but I don't weigh 120 any more.
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Old 10-17-05, 07:05 PM
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I had a Graftek for a while, a sponsorship deal. I had to give it back at the end of the year...It was light, and pretty, but I had to brace the top tube with my knee on any descent to keep it going in a straight line...I don't have fond memories of that year, although altogether it wasn't that bad for finishes.

I have a very early Klein frame and fork, just about as nasty a condition as the Colnago was in. I'll weigh the pair and report back soon...

The LBS has a pair of Hi-E wheels in the basement, and I don't have any experience at all with them. Are they for bantamweights only?
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Old 10-17-05, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by luker
The LBS has a pair of Hi-E wheels in the basement, and I don't have any experience at all with them. Are they for bantamweights only?
Ask them if you can hold them, and form your own opinion.
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Old 10-17-05, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
Ask them if you can hold them, and form your own opinion.
They're bloody light...! I've got a pair of Hi-E rims built with Ti spindle Pino hubs, hi-lo in the rear. I'm way too heavy for them, except maybe for the odd ride on a smooth bike path. I couldn't resist buying them though, just to have hanging in the garage. I've got another pair of super-light wheels using Hi-E hubs and Fiamme Ergals; they're a bit heavier than those with the Hi-E rims, but I'll give them a try on my next weight weenie build.
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Old 10-18-05, 05:57 AM
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The Hi-E hubs were the lighest you could buy, at least for a while. I don't believe their rims were the lightest, but with Hi-E they made all the wheel components including the spokes and nipples, which is one thing we haven't mentioned. On a weight weenie I'd definitely choose the Hi-E aluminum nipples and probably their spokes. As to rims, I'd give that nod to the Mavic Or Extra Legere. My freewheel choice would be the Maillard Course, which is far lighter than the Zeus 2000. Tires would be Clement Clement Record Seta Extra, because all this thing would do, would be hang from a scale.
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