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Totally Tubular

Old 02-07-22, 11:06 PM
  #2226  
Sturuss
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To remove the dried glue, I just use paint thinner from the hardware store and some superfine steel wool. Best to do this outside when the weather is warmer!
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Old 02-08-22, 07:35 AM
  #2227  
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Sturuss welcome to C&V and Totally Tubular. We are friendly bunch and appreciate your contributions. Tell us a little more about yourself and your 1973 Atala Competizione (mentioned in your other post). What tires are you running, and do you have any other helpful tips to offer?

We need to bump up your posts to 10 so you can include pictures and send PMs.
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Old 02-09-22, 10:51 AM
  #2228  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Sturuss welcome to C&V and Totally Tubular. We are friendly bunch and appreciate your contributions. Tell us a little more about yourself and your 1973 Atala Competizione (mentioned in your other post). What tires are you running, and do you have any other helpful tips to offer?

We need to bump up your posts to 10 so you can include pictures and send PMs.
I am a Newbie to the BF, so forgive me if I do something stupid.

I am an older guy who has enjoyed bikes all my life. Bought my Atala new from a LBS in Monroville, PA after I had some money from my first job after graduating from Purdue with a Mechanical Engineering degree. I have owned other bikes, but this is the one I love to ride still. I recently replaced the clinchers I have been riding with the original tubular rims on wide flange Campy hubs and bought new tires, Conti Giros (expensive). After cleaning up with a lot of elbow grease, they really look and ride very nicely. That 49 year old tubular glue was a challenge to remove!

Nice to know there are other bike geeks like me out there!
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Old 02-09-22, 11:16 AM
  #2229  
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Originally Posted by Sturuss View Post
I am a Newbie to the BF, so forgive me if I do something stupid.

I am an older guy who has enjoyed bikes all my life. Bought my Atala new from a LBS in Monroville, PA after I had some money from my first job after graduating from Purdue with a Mechanical Engineering degree. I have owned other bikes, but this is the one I love to ride still. I recently replaced the clinchers I have been riding with the original tubular rims on wide flange Campy hubs and bought new tires, Conti Giros (expensive). After cleaning up with a lot of elbow grease, they really look and ride very nicely. That 49 year old tubular glue was a challenge to remove!

Nice to know there are other bike geeks like me out there!
Lots of us on here at C&V!

A Boilermaker! Ha! I liked teasing them in sermons at my last church. Had 5-6 of them in my last church in NH (I retired in Sep. '21).

What tires did you mount?
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Old 02-09-22, 11:44 AM
  #2230  
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Sturuss, welcome! I bought my first sewup bike the same year (an ill-fated Lambert). All my wheels then went sewup ("tubular" back then was for snotty people in my circles) until I started playing with the then rather new high end clinchers. Late '80s. (And promptly crashed on a wet downhill corner I'd done wet dozens of times on sewups.)

Since 2000 I've been tubular free but I'm going back. Three reasons. 1) I never want to repeat the crash that happened when my rear tire came off the rim. I cannot rid myself of that thought on fast downhills. When I raced, I blew out sewups at least once on 40 mph+ descents. Such a non-issue that I cannot remember which wheel it was or how many times it happened. 2) The ride. I used to race Criterium Setas - the magic carpets. So dreamy and so light! 3) The bike of my avatar is a ti fix gear designed to be effectively what would have been raced in the late '80s had gears and freewheels never been invented. Easy and fast wheel flips. The dropout (not track end) can handle any 1/8" cog available with no change in chain length.) Every time I get on that bike (my favorite of all time) I get reminded first pedal stroke that, yes, this is a pure race bike; just on training wheels. To put on 200g tires and 330g rims? That bike would fly! I've got the tires. Got the rims. Just got to pick the hubs, get the spokes - DT Revs or equiv. - lace and glue! (300g tires and Mavic GP4s for the everyday stuff. Still lighter than my lightest clinchers by an innertube.)

Edit: almost forgot. Boilermaker. Wolverine here. (From Boston and in A2 for the Naval Architecture.) I was on the sailing team and have vague recollections of racing very small boats on a windless pond and 3.2 beer.

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Old 02-09-22, 12:24 PM
  #2231  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Lots of us on here at C&V!

A Boilermaker! Ha! I liked teasing them in sermons at my last church. Had 5-6 of them in my last church in NH (I retired in Sep. '21).

What tires did you mount?
Continental Giro 22mm.

Boilermakers are easy to tease if you are watching football. Not much to tease this year in Basketball. Boiler Up!
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Old 02-09-22, 09:19 PM
  #2232  
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[QUOTE=79pmooney;22404343]Sturuss, welcome! I bought my first sewup bike the same year (an ill-fated Lambert). All my wheels then went sewup ("tubular" back then was for snotty people in my circles) until I started playing with the then rather new high end clinchers. Late '80s. (And promptly crashed on a wet downhill corner I'd done wet dozens of times on sewups.)

Agreed. I have used the term “sewups” forever, until I learned the term “tubular” recently. I don’t think tubular is a very descriptive term because both types of tires have tubes. I like sewups better.

Maybe I am just Old School.
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Old 02-12-22, 08:24 PM
  #2233  
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I’m getting ready to have a set of wheels built up for my Cino AD Vent Noir w/ long-cage DuoPar RD and would appreciate anyone offering advice or saving me from a big mistake. Going with black G1 DuraAce hubs laced to Nemesis rims and mounted with FMB 30 PR tires. I just picked a Sachs Maillard Aris13-30 6-sp freewheel and already have a Regina BX 14-34 6-sp - both NOS. Leaning toward the Sachs and might save the larger Regina for the clinchers. That Sachs is nearly silent and I’m hoping this will be a pleasing build.



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Old 02-12-22, 09:10 PM
  #2234  
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IMO, the Sachs is a better freewheel than the Regina, sprocket design, shifting, internal build, machining, etc..

However, a vintage NOS Sachs can be plagued with contaminated grease. Sachs used a type of grease which often turns into a sticky peanut butter consistency. The grease, which Sachs flooded the interior with, instead of just in the bearing races, can cause the pawls to stick and not engage the sprocket teeth.

My recommendation is to open it up, clean all the old grease, add fresh synthetic grease to the bearing races only. Add a drop of oil on the pawl pivots and rub the ratchet teeth with the same high quality machine oil. Just enough to lightly coat the surfaces.

While your pictured freewheel might be smooth and silent, one of the pawls could be stuck and only one is currently working. You wouldn't want to be riding Cino and have both pawls stick, rendering the bike inoperable. A freewheel should never be silent. If it is--- too much grease was used.
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Old 02-12-22, 09:45 PM
  #2235  
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Thanks Bob. Great insight, the freewheel action does feel like peanut butter. I was thinking it would just loosen up but I’m going to follow your advice and the cleaning and re-greasing you recommend will be the first job. I’m still waffling over tape vs glue as well - I’ve had good luck with both never having to replace a flat. Tape is easy and I’ve never heard of it failing but I have more confidence in glue and it’s probably easier to remount. I haven’t had to tear off a taped tire yet so I have no idea.
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Old 02-13-22, 08:41 AM
  #2236  
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Originally Posted by majmt View Post
I’m getting ready to have a set of wheels built up for my Cino AD Vent Noir w/ long-cage DuoPar RD and would appreciate anyone offering advice or saving me from a big mistake. Going with black G1 DuraAce hubs laced to Nemesis rims and mounted with FMB 30 PR tires. I just picked a Sachs Maillard Aris13-30 6-sp freewheel and already have a Regina BX 14-34 6-sp - both NOS. Leaning toward the Sachs and might save the larger Regina for the clinchers. That Sachs is nearly silent and I’m hoping this will be a pleasing build.
The Sachs will use the readily-available Shimano-style remover tool. The Regina splined tool is narrower diameter and may require a special thin-wall tool to clear the hub locknuts. The Park FR-4 doesn't clear the locknuts on Campagnolo Record, Zeus, or Phil Wood hubs. I'm not sure about the Dura-Ace hubs, but it would be prudent to check this. Zeus and Phil Wood both made thin-wall tools to fit over the locknuts, but these are getting harder to find.
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Old 02-13-22, 09:04 AM
  #2237  
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Originally Posted by majmt View Post
Thanks Bob. Great insight, the freewheel action does feel like peanut butter. I was thinking it would just loosen up but I’m going to follow your advice and the cleaning and re-greasing you recommend will be the first job. I’m still waffling over tape vs glue as well - I’ve had good luck with both never having to replace a flat. Tape is easy and I’ve never heard of it failing but I have more confidence in glue and it’s probably easier to remount. I haven’t had to tear off a taped tire yet so I have no idea.
on the decision to service your Sachs. Take a picture of the internals when you pull the two halves apart. They might look something like these (7 speed model):

My two cents on tape vs. glue is to consider trying the Effetto Mariposa Carogna Double Sided Tubular Gluing Tape. I recently used it on both wheelsets I have for my Lotus Super Pro Aero (check several posts back in this thread).

After mounting the Vittoria Corsa Speed G+ I discovered one tire was defective at the valve stem inner tube seam. Granted I didn't ride it, but it stayed mounted for several weeks while I exchanged emails with Vittoria and Excel Sports (where I purchased the tire). When it was approved for warranty replacement, the dismounting was challenging, but doable. The tape stayed adhered to the rim. Later I was able to remove the tape from the rim, which again took some work, but it all came off in one piece.

On my other wheel set (vintage Roloff aeros) I used the Effetto Mariposa Carogna tape with Vittoria Rally tires. It's the only bike I've ridden since January 1st, and hundreds of miles later the tires are holding on to the rims fantastically.
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Old 02-13-22, 09:08 AM
  #2238  
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The Nemesis is a great rim. Mine have done several Belgian Waffle Rides with only 22 or 25mm tires to protect them and they continue to ride as new and true. Silver DT Comps would be my choice, tape is not Cino and the Sachs FW with a PC850 is a smooth combo.
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Old 02-13-22, 11:49 AM
  #2239  
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@majmt - Can't speak for the rest but the Nemesis pair I have look and feel pretty good. I wish the braking surface were not as worn. I am tempted to buy another set but with a number of GL330 in stock, it is hard to justify not using a rim that is nearly 100 gm lighter.

I finally glued up my sewups for the Pinarello. Campy hubs, Record rear and Chorus front with Campagnolo Omega Strada Hardox with the aero profile.

Just need to reroute the cables and then wrap the tape. I may also change out the ring to 50/40/30, now at 52/42/30.
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Old 02-15-22, 09:26 AM
  #2240  
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I know this isn't the Craigslist deals thread but if these tires were made in 28's I have just bought them myself at 2 for $100

Unknown size so will require buyer to contact seller and see what that size is.

​​​​​​https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...60209381399639

​​​​​​Tubular tires
$100
Listed a week ago in Annville, PA
MessageDetailsNew, price for both OBO

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Old 02-19-22, 12:12 AM
  #2241  
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Well I sure got my money's worth out of this pair.
Also, my glue jobs are as good as they get.


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Old 02-19-22, 07:58 AM
  #2242  
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Originally Posted by majmt View Post
FMB 30 PR tires.
If I may, where did you source your tires?
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Old 02-19-22, 08:20 AM
  #2243  
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Tubular storage/repair/sealant issue

With the Dallas area’s icy wintry weather snaps (I know comparatively these are passing blips for some of you) I took the down time to repair four flatted Vittoria Corsa G+ tubulars.



On opening up the worst or most worn out tread wise-one I observed that the tube itself had several thin or overstretched sections along the edges of where the tire was folded while hanging. I attributed this to having been hung so long out in my garage for up to a couple of years.



I still just fixed the flat hole and finished it up but that tube failed upon a full inflation. Inspection showed it failed along a thin seam a couple of inches wide. I tossed that tire completely with it’s worn tread.



I have now changed my tubular storage from hanging to laying flat under a bed.



I also noted that this tube was one of the few that I used a sealant in. When I first started with sew ups I thought this was a good idea. I quit after a couple of uses as it was never a permanent fix for me. After opening this tube up I now saw the harden residue left behind. If you ever want to fix your own flats and have to splice a tube this is an issue.



Two of the other tires were opened up/patched/and closed without incident.



The last tire was more of a problem. It had multiple thin spots. They looked like stretch marks. After multiple reinforcing patches (I had to pull the tube completely out) and reassembling upon a final inflation it failed one last time.



Since the stretchy parts on the tube only appeared in tubes I used sealant in I wonder if that was a factor?



Since this was a good tire I found a latex tube from my LBS and spliced it back in. Voila a brand new tire.



I did get plenty of splicing practice before doing it to the new tube. I followed the Jobst Brandt method. Works great



The whole repair process is also therapeutic if you like doing things yourself. Saving three out of four felt like a win!
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Old 02-19-22, 08:42 AM
  #2244  
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obuckler thanks for your detailed explanation on repairs, patching, and splicing. By any chance did you take pictures of the splicing? It would be helpful to see what you are describing.
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Old 02-19-22, 08:58 AM
  #2245  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
If I may, where did you source your tires?
I ordered them directly from ReneHerse. I placed myself on a notification list for whenever they had a run of them available. Had to pay top $$$ but it looks like they have some w/ silk casings in stock again.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop...ubaix-tubular/
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Old 02-19-22, 09:04 AM
  #2246  
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obuckler - replacing a tube completely and then re-sewing the carcass sounds VERY ambitious to me. And… I imagine you need a whole lot of thread - can I ask what brand you use and where you obtain it from?

So it sounds like you used a new latex replacement inner tube? Did you use Vittoria, Challenge or some other brand (such as Michelin or Vredestein)?

One last question: what adhesive do you use to re-glue the base tape (around the entire perimeter no less!)?

BTW: I concur with your opinion that latex sealant in a tubular for flat prevention is not a very good idea. Knowing how road tubeless sealant dries up and needs to be frequently topped off and seeing how the old, dried sealant residue lines the thick tire carcass (a thin latex tube would be a disaster), makes my goals for running tubular much different.

I still am curious to put my supply of NOS Continental Grand Prix 4000 tubulars into the riding cue (I have 2 of the rare 25mm wide ones and 2 or 3 of the regular 23mm ones). These are not “sew-up” type but instead have an overlapping vulcanized ply system so I have no idea how one of these (TUFO style) tires could be patched if flatted.

Last edited by masi61; 02-19-22 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 02-19-22, 09:12 AM
  #2247  
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No I didn’t but I did pull an old tube out of an old rotted tire (old tubes are sources of latex patches—and I simply use Continental rim cement as a vulcanizer—bonds completely and this is confirmed by inspecting old patches) that shows a factory splice. This photo shows much neater than what I do but it’s same result.

In place pulled out from the tire I overlap an inch. Then with cue tip shaft (or a toothpick) carefully and quickly slide in the glue all around a half inch deep. Then using wax paper flatten the bond with your fingers. It will curl quickly if you are not quick. Hold it for a minute or so. Then inspect. Any misses refill. When done talc it and reinstall and sew up. Inflate. I did do a one pump inflation to look at it before sewing back up. But any more and you can cut the tube again if it pushes against the tire carcass.

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Old 02-19-22, 08:26 PM
  #2248  
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I noticed a lot of people are using tubulars here. That's great I switched over in early 2000 wow has it been 20 years already. I don't know where everyone is ordering there tires from but I order mine from Merlin in the UK. They have Veloflex raven's in 28 for around $65.00 last time I ordered them. Also Bike24 in Germany has Schwalbe 1 in a 30c for a crazy price I paid $30.00 a piece a month a go. I prefer Veloflex over any tubular to me they are a great combination of comfort, decent mileage, and grip. Oh you can also order straight from Veloflex and it is cheaper then U.S. sale prices.
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Old 02-20-22, 10:14 AM
  #2249  
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Another vote for Veloflex.
But the Specialized tubulars are most excellent.

Someone above mentioned the Conti Giro in 22mm and also a favorite for a lesser $$ tire.
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Old 02-20-22, 12:12 PM
  #2250  
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
obuckler - replacing a tube completely and then re-sewing the carcass sounds VERY ambitious to me. And… I imagine you need a whole lot of thread - can I ask what brand you use and where you obtain it from?

So it sounds like you used a new latex replacement inner tube? Did you use Vittoria, Challenge or some other brand (such as Michelin or Vredestein)?

One last question: what adhesive do you use to re-glue the base tape (around the entire perimeter no less!)?

BTW: I concur with your opinion that latex sealant in a tubular for flat prevention is not a very good idea. Knowing how road tubeless sealant dries up and needs to be frequently topped off and seeing how the old, dried sealant residue lines the thick tire carcass (a thin latex tube would be a disaster), makes my goals for running tubular much different.

I still am curious to put my supply of NOS Continental Grand Prix 4000 tubulars into the riding cue (I have 2 of the rare 25mm wide ones and 2 or 3 of the regular 23mm ones). These are not “sew-up” type but instead have an overlapping vulcanized ply system so I have no idea how one of these (TUFO style) tires could be patched if flatted.
sorry. I never saw this post.

replacing a whole tube is easier than it sounds. Not usually necessary luckily. Open 6 inches of the carcass at one side of valve. Cut the tube, tie a good string on end. I used a Spectra kite string 150#. Pull out tube leaving string behind to pull in new tube that’s cut in same place. Splice it back up. Sew it back up. I found a bontrager latex tube. Not sure if any brand is better? Helps to talc the tube and inside carcass. Tie on the string to make the pulling end compact for ease of getting it to slide though.

I used an upholstery thread my wife had. Worked better after waxing it. On earlier attempts I used a sail repair thread from my Hobie days. Was too heavy and hard to push through the holes.

Wherever the base tape was pulled up it was reglued with a carpet glue which has at least some latex in it. That way it should be stronger than rim cement.

you don’t ever patch tufo type sewups. I bought three at beginning of my sewup journey. Hated them BUT now are relegated to spare duty under saddle where their toughness helps!

Last edited by obuckler; 02-20-22 at 12:48 PM.
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