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Info on old Windsor bikes?

Old 01-04-06, 10:01 AM
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wearyourtruth
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Info on old Windsor bikes?

i'm looking for any info on old Windsor bikes (70s or before) just curious about their history, quality, value, etc.

i found this on sheldon

Windsor

These were really fun bikes from Mexico. They made generous use of Campy parts, and the top-end frames were Cinelli knock-offs. When you see a Cinelli frame with holes-in-the-lugs, using a 27.2 seatpost, say "Windsor painted-like-Cinelli". There are more that just a few Windsors floating around out there with Cinelli decals. A Windsor is nice, but it isn't a Cinelli. Windsor frames tended to use fairly heavy tubing that made for a stiff but dead ride. Figure that an N.R. equipped Windsor in guideline condition should have a value of around $ 700. The Winsdor track bikes are very nice - in guideline condition they should be worth around $550.
but little else.
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Old 01-04-06, 11:50 AM
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You can do a search of the bikelist archives here:
https://search.bikelist.org/

Also check:
https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Mexico/Mex_classic.htm
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/windsor/
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Windsor-78/

I've still got two Windsors, one of them since '76. That one was my first "Pro" bike.
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Old 01-04-06, 02:09 PM
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I've read about Mexican-made Windsor's that used light weight Reynolds or Columbus tubes and that compared well with the better Italian bikes of that era. Only the paint and finish were the "give aways" that these were not actually Italian bikes. One of the elite Centurion models was made for Centurion by Windsor.

BikesDirect/CycleSpectrum is using the Windsor name today to sell cheapo Chinese bikes. But, BDCS brags of Windsor's long "British" heritage...I guess bragging about "Mexican heritage" didn't work for the marketing guru's.
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Old 01-04-06, 02:14 PM
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I have one of those new "cheapo" Windsor bikes.BTW I am very happy with it. Anyway just for the fun of it I was looking for info about the origional Windsor bikes that obviously have no lineage to the new ones and I couldn't find much either. If you find any interesting or informative links please post them here.
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Old 01-04-06, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by geraldatwork
...If you find any interesting or informative links please post them here.
Other than those links listed above, there's little info on the web... Windsors were popular sellers during the mid-late '70s, 'cause they offered good value. The Professional was one of the best deals around for a Campagnolo Record group; many bought the bikes for that group, and stuck it on a custom/semi custom frame. The Windsor Pro is a nice riding bike, but as Sheldon noted, a bit less lively than many other frames, due to their using Columbus SP tubing. The SP was the top grade Columbus, just in a thicker gauge. Later Pros in smaller sizes did use SL. I remember a friend having one with a 27.2 seat post size. Most Windsor Pros I've seen (and had) were well built, but I've heard stories that some cracked around the BB shell. I've had 4 Pros, and a Carerra Sport, and all were fairly well made. They're not Cinelli quality, but are at least as good as most other production frames from the time. With the Pro, it seems that the earlier examples were more cleanly built than the later ones...
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Old 01-04-06, 07:31 PM
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The 1970's generated a lot of myths about bikes. Schwinn execs said they used Reynolds 531 for the Paramounts NOT because it was superior, but because customers were suckered by the myth that Reynolds 531 was "better" than Columbus or Isawata tubing.

Heavier? Reynolds and Columbus made tubes in all sorts of weights. But, a typical Reynolds 531 set included a 1.02/0.71 top tube and down tube. Columbus PS and Columbus SP? Duh...1.02/071 top tube and down tube. The Reynolds seat tube was slighter lighter than the Columbus tube. Could any rider detect the difference if a builder substituted a Columbus seat tube for the Reynolds seat tube? If he had read the "Princess and the Pea", perhaps.

Windsor used Italian tubes and Italian Campy components, and lower cost Mexican builders to build "Italian" bikes, at a bargain price. During the 1970 to 1975 "bike boom", long waiting lists meant many more people wanted an Italian bike than could have one. So, there was a market for an "almost" Italian bike.

The avalanche of Asian-made bikes in the 1980's had the same effect on the Mexican bike industry that it had on the American bike industry. Americans used to build more than ten million bikes each year. Today, far less than one million. And, cheap Asian bikes meant "goodbye Windsor".
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Old 01-04-06, 08:08 PM
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The reason for the Windsor Pro's decidely Italian flavor and Cinelli appearance was that the manager responsible for the high end Acer-Mex bicycles was an ex-Cinelli employee. He just continued to build the same basic bicycle that he had been building for years, using the materials that he was familiar with.

Maybe the owners had decided that they wanted an Italian style, pro bicycle and lured an Italian builder, but I don't think they specifically had a Cinelli clone in mind until they landed their manager. At that point, it would be common sense to let him build what he knew best, particularly since it was such a recognizable bicycle, even with other decals. Once they advertised that they had landed an ex-Cinelli employee, that would lure a lot of customers. A Cinelli clone, built by an ex-Cinelli employee, for several hundred dollars less than a bonafide Cinelli - that's very tempting to a neophyte on a tight budget!
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Old 01-04-06, 09:05 PM
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I have a '77 Trek tx900 - a remarkably Cinelliesque bike - I understand that both Appel and Isaacs had some training with Cinelli, and when they went to Trek, they also just built what they knew.
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Old 01-04-06, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
...A Cinelli clone, built by an ex-Cinelli employee, for several hundred dollars less than a bonafide Cinelli - that's very tempting to a neophyte on a tight budget!
They sure were! Looked sorta-like a Cinelli, but cost half as much, and used the same Campagnolo parts. I felt pretty cool on my Windsor Pro at 16 years old in 1976... Most kids were riding Stingrays with knobbies or BMX bikes, and I had my Cinelli wanna-be. Too bad I bought it 3cm to tall.... The right size just didn't look right. Still waiting for my legs to grow in...
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Old 11-22-11, 07:29 PM
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I bought a Windsor Pro in the early 70s sometime, I'm trying to get pictures up on my web site so you can see the photos - it has the original campignolo air pump, cinelli and campignolo equipment, etc - it's unrestored and not ridden much, I got it for my wife and she didn't like riding it so it mostly sat around. As I understand it, this bicycle model was ridden by Eddie Merx in the tour de California.
maybe this link will work https://www.wbnoble.com/forsale/Misc_...al_bicycle.htm

If memory serves, the serial number is 044

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Old 11-22-11, 08:41 PM
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I picked up a Windsor International at a flea market this summer for $20. Hi ten tubing, but nice Suntour/Sugino components. Seems like a nicely built bike.
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Old 11-22-11, 09:08 PM
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I just saw a Windsor this afternoon, sans front wheel, at my favorite antique shop. The front dropouts were the smashed ends of the fork. I didn't look at the back. Double top tube. Don't remember the model either; it didn't make a big impression on me.
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Old 11-22-11, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by alanbikehouston View Post
I've read about Mexican-made Windsor's that used light weight Reynolds or Columbus tubes and that compared well with the better Italian bikes of that era. Only the paint and finish were the "give aways" that these were not actually Italian bikes...
The Windsor Pros of the 70s used Columbus tubing, and the paint and finish was equal to the Italians.
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Old 11-22-11, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by william_b_noble View Post
I bought a Windsor Pro in the early 70s sometime, I'm trying to get pictures up on my web site so you can see the photos - it has the original campignolo air pump, cinelli and campignolo equipment, etc - it's unrestored and not ridden much, I got it for my wife and she didn't like riding it so it mostly sat around. As I understand it, this bicycle model was ridden by Eddie Merx in the tour de California.
maybe this link will work https://www.wbnoble.com/forsale/Misc_...al_bicycle.htm

If memory serves, the serial number is 044
In your pics, Modolo are the brakes (originals were Universals): tubing is Columbus. I don't think Eddy Merckx was at the Tour De California, but I think Windsor was a sponsor. Windsor sponsored his hour record attempt in Mexico, and plastered some Windsor decals on his Colnago...
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Old 11-23-11, 08:42 AM
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In addition to the brakeset, the saddle and handlebar stem are obvious replacements, in which case the bars may be too.
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Old 11-23-11, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
I just saw a Windsor this afternoon, sans front wheel, at my favorite antique shop. The front dropouts were the smashed ends of the fork. I didn't look at the back. Double top tube. Don't remember the model either; it didn't make a big impression on me.
I may have to go back and take a closer look.
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Old 11-23-11, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
I just saw a Windsor this afternoon, sans front wheel, at my favorite antique shop. The front dropouts were the smashed ends of the fork. I didn't look at the back. Double top tube. Don't remember the model either; it didn't make a big impression on me.
Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
I may have to go back and take a closer look.
While I can't say I've ever seen any where the dropouts were created by crimping the fork blades, Winsdor did make a full line, including entry level, hi-tensile steel models.

There was also an unassociated Windsor made in England and crimped fork dropouts were fairly common on some English roadsters. Then there was department store Winsor, which some confuse with Windsor.
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Old 11-23-11, 11:57 AM
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I've got a beautiful older windsor frameset, the front lugs are chrome, and it's got chrome socks on the fork/rear triangle I tried finding out some info on it, just like you seem to be doing and found next to nothing.
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Old 11-23-11, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
I've got a beautiful older windsor frameset, the front lugs are chrome, and it's got chrome socks on the fork/rear triangle I tried finding out some info on it, just like you seem to be doing and found next to nothing.
sounds like a super carrera.
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Old 11-23-11, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by illwafer View Post
sounds like a super carrera.
however did you guess?
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Old 11-23-11, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
however did you guess?
i had an odd one (i think). the super carrera might be the only one with chromed headtube lugs.
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Old 11-23-11, 12:35 PM
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I do believe it's the same frame.. I don't think mine has a double drilled out set for water bottles on the DT though, where's the socks on yours?
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Old 11-23-11, 12:37 PM
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Oh and terrible pic, but here's mine
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Old 11-23-11, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by illwafer View Post
i had an odd one (i think). the super carrera might be the only one with chromed headtube lugs.
Most Windsors had chromed head lugs in the the 1970s, including the Professional, Pro Track, Touring, Competition, Super Carrera and Carrera Special. I've never seen a Super Carrera with cantilever brakes before. What year is it?
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Old 11-23-11, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
I do believe it's the same frame.. I don't think mine has a double drilled out set for water bottles on the DT though, where's the socks on yours?
Chormed fork and stays ends generally indicate an older model. This feature was common during the boom but was eliminated by the very late 1970s.
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