swen0171 

My first post, I hear that you all have the knowledge on vintage stuff so here goes...

Not quite vintage (early to mid 90s) Bianchi racing frame with Columbus Max tubing and matching blade fork. 59cm, red with a black fork but the paint might have been a special order. I bought this off a local racer in minneapolis in 98 after a couple of seasons of racing and have ridden it 1000s of miles. I updated the wheels and derailers/shifters to campy 9 speed in 2001. It is a beautiful frame and I was told it was never offered as a built bike but frame only and that it was designed for big guys (I'm 200lbs). I have found references to Eddy Merckx Columbus Max frames that may even have been recently reissued, but only a couple of Bianchi references (one on ebay who was told it was a prototype, but I don't think so). The serial number is either 00074 or 700074. It has the transverse ovalized tubes (oval with the wide part verticle on one end, circular in the middle, and oval with the wide part on the horizontal on the other end, if that makes any sense), a super short wheel base and the Bianchi logo is cut into the head tube, maybe stamped or lazer cut (not a sticker or a badge).

I have loved this bike, extremely fast and stiff and amazing on hills (comfortable at 45-50mph), but it has always been just a hint too small and now I'm much more into touring/commuting, besides I have to get rid of the half dozen bikes in the basement.

Does anyone know the history of this frame? What it is worth used (some chips in the paint but no dents or crashes)? Not sure if I want to sell it but I've asked around and no one seems to know anything about it.

Any information would help,
Swen

luker

Check out the completed Bianchi sales on eBay. At any given second they have about 50 of 'em, and your type will have been sold recently (or will be soon). In a vacuum I'd guess the frame/fork would go to $300 (not celeste hurts your sale...), maybe more depending on the audience. You want to take the effort to disassemble and sell the pieces...

T-Mar

These frames first appeared in 1988. Several hundred were imported that year, so it's not exactly rare. The prototype confusion stems from the model name, which was actually Proto. The early versions had fillet brazed joints, due to the oversized tubes and ovalized tube ends. Columbus Max was probably the stiffest steel tubing available at the time. The material was Columbus' cold worked Nivacrom, which was reportedly 30% stronger than standard CrMo. Despite the oversize tubing, weight was comparable to an SLX frame. However, the ride was teeth chattering for all but the biggest riders. Even then, it was best suited for smooth roads. I've seen Bianchi Proto in white with celeste decals, saddle and bar tape. They were available as a complete bicycle, equipped with C-Record, for about $3500 US. Bare frames were $2000 US.

luker

Can you post us a picture?

swen0171 

Thanks for the information and the model name! I'll take it from here.

I figure out how to post pictures in the next day or so so check back.

swen

grimace308

i finally purchased my dream bianchi proto, just like the one i fell in love with back in 89'. im unable to find squat on this bike spec wise and was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of an old catalogue or anything about this frame. these puppies are hard to find and id like to buy a couple more, but i might just have a couple built up, with some buddies stock of max tubing he has tucked away, so some numbers on the frame would be really cool.

thanks,
luck

btw, i have an old non-suspended serotta t-max. max max max max max max max

T-Mar

The obvious answer is to measure the one you have. Specs are going to change slightly, depending on the frame size, so we'd need to know what size you ride. BTW, Bianchi sizes frames center-to-top, so keep that in mind. Also, there might be slight variations depending on the exact year. I know I have the 1991 specs and the 1988 specs (first year).

swen0171 

I sold mine to a Minneapolis local who was also crazy about the max (mine was always too small, though I still miss it). He also had a Serotta Max mountain bike with lugs! Merckx build a lugged version and it's funny because I just responded to a post on a rebuilt Merckx that looked like it was the old Max tubing version. So I guess I can't help you other than to say that I think it came as a frame only.

grimace308

yeah, i know that guy in minneapolis, hes a real knucklehead and id avoid him at all cost...ummmm swen, that was me.
as you can see i procrastinate a bit, as this purchase took place a couple years ago.
the deal is that there have been so many collisions this year in mpls, including myself on a 92' rb-1, that im now paranoid to ride the proto without having a backup.

interesting, im also looking at picking up a merckx mxl somewhere and found a dude over in the uk, who apparently has a line on some old stock...but that story is for a different thread

thank you, i understand that while i could measure the frame, i figure getting the exact numbers, for a 59ish frame, out of a 1991/88 catalogue, would be, imo, the proper way to go. any way you could zip me a file? id really appreciate it. if all else fails, im might also duplicate the rb-1, but im indecisive and vacillate incessantly.

thanks yall,
luck

T-Mar

Following dimensions are in centimeters for 1991 model, 59 cm frame (c-t-t). I have to dig out the 1988 literature and will post if it's different.

Wheelbase:100.5
Top tube: 57.5
Chainstays: 40.0
BB drop: 7.0
Fork rake: 4.5
Head angle: 73.5
Seat angle: 73.5

longbeachgary

That first line is very funny. I'd be VERY interested in hearing about the old stock Merckx.

grimace308

thanks for the numbers t-max, i really appreciate it,

long gary the pirate, this is the link the guy sent me in an email a couple days ago

grimace308

btw, if i catch wind of any max frames for sale from anywhere, ill post them here asap, cause us maxites need to stick together

if anyone hears of a proto, mxl or anything in a 58, lemme know please.

thanks for the info,
chris

Bianchigirll 

Hello

your Columbus Max Bianchi Proto is a rare item. they were offered in 1989 and 1990 mostly as frame only. I am huge Bianchi fan and own three road bikes and a Project. I was working in a bike shop near boston at the time this frame came out.

the Proto frame as you know is MAX tubing for a larger paerson this is probally the best frame materiel ever used. it is a bit heave but is very stiff and rides well. most of these frames, there was around 1500 maybe less imported, were shipped to California in plain whate and could be painted almost any color with Dupont Imron paint and a small choice of decals. the frame geomentry was classic Bianchi but the rear triange was very short. I somewhere have catalogues for these years and will look around for them adn I should be able to provided you with frame specs.

I have NEVER seen one of these on Ebay there are lots of Bianchis there but in 10 years of looking now ande then I have not seen a Proto.

I enjoy my Proto much more than my Mega Pro Ti. if you have other questions I may be able to answer them. I think the offered group was C-Record with Delta brakes.

Bianchigirll 

Hello I guess this link is dead?

e66y

Hi there

Has anyone seen proto's in smaller sizes 50 to 53 cm?
waiting for that unicorn

Bianchigirll 

Good Morning. Welcome to the forums. I have seen a few for sale but I am not sure if they were that small. The US catalog shows they came in odd sizes, 49, 51, 53, 55, 57, 59, 61, 64. I don't know how the number of each size were determined but I suspect the smallest were proportionally smaller than the mid size frame.

Good luck in your quest. I was fortunate to actually buy the bike in this post and later picked up a MAX OR Cyclocross frame from the European market.

e66y

Thanks Bianchigirl

Seen a Celeste proto available, but in 54 cm. I usually ride 52 cm so a bit too big for me. These rarely come up.

Bianchigirll 

they do, unless I simply couldn't ride I would hate to have to give mine up.

Try setting up a google search. I have one that pings me for almost every Bianchi posted to CL I unfortunately don't remember how to get it to do ebay but that is easy enough to check every few days.

For a smaller rider you might also want to keep an eye out for a Mini MAX which is a EL OS tube set getting the MAX oval treatment but those are slightly less common than a MAX frame.

wrk101

Waiting doesn't get you there. A rare bike in a small to Xs size = must search aggressively. Save searches on eBay, use the various search engines on C/L, etc. And unfortunately, be prepared to pay top dollar. The way to find a deal on a bike is to be open to other brands, models, colors, and eras. Once you lock into a specific bike, the deals evaporate.

I went through the same costly process in finding my 1987 red and white Schwinn Prologue. Finding it locally in my size was a non-starter (I tried for two years). I ended up buying it on eBay, and paid over market to get it. And seller had it sized wrong, but I guessed he was wrong based on the pictures, so I took a major leap of faith. Turned out correct, but it was a gamble. Try complaining that a 60cm bike (his ad) was not the 55cm size I was guessing.... The Prologue is the only bike I singled out a particular brand/model/size/and color. The rest of my fleet are bikes that I was not looking for, surprises if you will. All were "better" deals.

e66y

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, my usual modus operandi is the search engines, ebay (globally), forums etc.
The smaller framed bikes are mostly top dollar if in good condition with detailed embelishments and a nice brand. Other European classified sites are good sources but sometimes there is a language barrier and a few times sellers are not willing to send abroad.The process can be frustrating at times, but overall the time used to investigate, identify and obtain the item you have been searching for is rewarding.

e66y

That minimax is very nice. Few and far between.

Bianchigirll 

If you set up a google search don't rely on people actually posting "Bianchi Proto built with Columbus MAX tubing" To a lot of people any bianchi is automatically a Specialisima or Campione del Mondo or something else old and Italian sounding.

These were painted in the states and I believe there was some leeway on the color. IIRC the only other one I saw in the flesh was white and celeste fade.

They were offered as complete bikes in '90 with Dura Ace and in '91 with a dark "Century" finish C-Rec w/ Delta brakes. I suspect you'll be more likely to run across a frame only purchase that was built by the buyer, that is how I got mine. Even with a broken SL trade in frame and employee purchase it was still a lot for a hard working girl to afford just the frame.

As I am sure you know there were lots of other builders who used MAX, one I would like to find is a Bertoni brand bike which was very likely built by Bianchi.

e66y

I have looked at old ebay sales etc.
What would be a fair price to pay for a Proto frame in good condition.

Bianchigirll 

When I bought the red one in '09 I paid just under $900ish for it, and it had a mix of CampI and some shipmano 600/ultegra.

I think you just have to bite the bullet on this and give most sellers what they are asking for theirs. The MAX frames so unusual I would go by whatever pricing you see Merckx's going for as I believe they are the most common. I see others but the prices are up to and over 1K for the frame/fork.

It is just going to boil down to what you are willing and able to pay when the bike comes along. If it happens to be near you, it makes it easier to negotiate since you can inspect it and check the wheels chain etc. If you are dealing long distance and have to rely on the sellers word then it get tricky especially if they are selling "Dad's bike" and don't know much other "he had it all custome built special from Italy (by the Pope himself no doubt) and paid a lot for it"