johnman64

I will inform you with some reassuring news that will be extra impressive, but I cannot explain here because I will get in trouble with Waterford. Your dad did not get the bike from Waterford. If you would contact me, I would be most delighted to give you some precision details about your Schwinn P-13. We have a personal Schwinn Paramount collection, many one owners. Contact me at john_4u_2000@yahoo.com. Thanks and hope your yellow Paramount is exciting. We have a 69 Paramount Tandem that is in your yellow. Thanks and hope to hear from you.
Best Regards,
John Proch
La Grange, Texas

BobHufford

I think the OP stated that he got the provenance report from Waterford (who has many of the original build sheets for Paramounts), not the actual bike.

Do you have a source for more details on our beloved Paramount bikes?

Thanks,

Bob "Wondering if my '75 P-10 came with the extra braze-ons, but doesn't want to pay $50+ to know" Hufford
Springfield, MO

Scooper

That's the way I read the OP, too, Bob.

I don't think the OP (AndyGrow) participates in BF anymore; his last post was in 2006.

BlankCrows

Bob, save up a bunch of loose change and then get one. You'll keep wondering about those braze-ons until you do.

cudak888 

Same here. I'd like to know myself what is so special about this Paramount information that John believes only AndyGrow should be privy to it, and that Waterford would get ticked about it. Unless he's giving away their Provenance Reports, old Richard Schwinn can't do a stinkin' thing about it.

Let's see - how many of us own 2nd-gen Paramounts?

(EDITED)

Bikingshearer: One
BlankCrows: One (?)
Scooper: Two
Fender1: One
retyred: C7809
linkovich: One
vincev: Three
Rabid Koala: Four
Sierra: Three
cudak888: F54, E7009, C72158
JohnnyBee: One
pastorbobnlnh: One

I've probably left out quite a few, unintentionally. I dare say we've got just as much reason to know about this Paramount information as any other owner would.

Take care,

-Kurt

Sierra

I've got a '62 P12/13(chromed head lugs), a '65 P13, and a '71 P15.

Rabid Koala

Mine are the ones in my signature, plus a 1970 chrome that Mrs. K rides.

JohnnyBee

You can add me to that list. (P-15)

I'll have to sell it soon I'm afraid. It's a long story.




Johnnybee.

cudak888 

List edited.

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

Don't forget about my 2nd generation 1966 P-13.

Oregon Southpaw

I think the reason why some people were upset about their provenance report was that if you have a production Paramount, the "report" can literally be a paragraph with a signature from Richard Schwinn. I have seen one like this at my LBS.

Seems to me that if you're fully restoring your Paramount at Waterford, you'd be silly not to have one. It kind of sucks though if you want to know more about your bike, spend $50 and find out about what you could by asking here. Then again if you have a Paramount and are considering doing something with Waterford $50 is a drop of water in the sea.

I'm still kicking myself for not buying the 61cm "Wheaties" Paramount that was for sale in Portland. I heard the provenence report for that one was way in-depth and interesting. Didn't have $1k laying around at the time

bikerosity57

Half step gearing.

cudak888 

My word - I can't believe I forgot!

-Kurt

bikingshearer 

I guess mine (F711) doesn't count because it is now a non-Schwinn color and is period-incorrect in the component department.

cudak888 

Is it a gunmetal silver? I might have confused you for BlankCrows.

I'm on page 11 of 40 of your posting list looking for a photo of that thing. Nothing yet.

EDIT: Page 12 was the charm. I know I'd seen this thing before. The dark gunmetal paint job is very distinctive (and a favorite of mine, incidentally):



-Kurt

AndyGrow

Wow...a blast from the past. I had forgotten my original member name (AndyGrow) and had signed up for a new account awhile ago - need to get that one deleted I guess!

Anyhow, I still have the bike, although it's been stripped down now to a bare frame. I'm trying to decide what the heck to do with it - cleaning up the components is a given, but as for the frame, I'm not sure if I'm going to have it professionally repainted or keep it as is but somehow protect it (no-gloss clear coat?) to preserve it's patina.

To whomever it was that asked, no my dad did not get the bike from Waterford, he bought it new from Schwinn.

Cheers!
Andy

Picchio Special

Simply because the racing derailleurs of the time couldn't reliably handle a large front chainwheel difference, and the 151bcd Campagnolo cranks couldn't provide it anyway. Also, crossover gearing usually involves more gearing overlap than half step. Crossover gearing did become more popular among top-level racers in the early 60's - Anquetil was using it by 1963, and he had the 144bcd cranks before they made it into the wider market.

campagnolosick

Hello Andy in Kodiak,
"Do not........I repeat.....Do NOT paint the bike". Do not spray clear on it. Leave it alone. If you want the best advice, keep it inside, no matter how hacked off the wife gets. You will need to get a good Carnauba hard paste wax, and I use Mothers Carnauba cleaner California Gold (Andy, the garb about Califirnia Gold Cleaner is all hogwash, but it is part of the company name and the way that you will find it. Keep it waxed. Keep it inside. Your wife may throw a magazine or a vacuum cleaner attachment or even a decoration off the mantle at me, but I don't mean put it in the living room or hallway or your wife will make you do what I had to do and that is get an apartment in San Marcos, Texas by the river, but if you have a spare closet or heck, hang it in the closed garage, but the house is best if you want to preserve it for your kids or friends who get your will. And last, Waterford would like to think they cranked this machine out, but they did not. This was most likely produced in the Schwinn plant in Chicago, IL. I see your brake line running through some under top tube cable guides. I would research it more, but it probably is not a P-13. Go see Bob Hufford's website on Schwinn Paramount. His is the best I have seen. Your Lemon Yellow Paramount is indeed beautiful. I hope you see this before you have it in the blasting cabinet or at the wash rack trying to scrape the paint off. It will be worth far more untouched. Good luck and she is a beaut!
Best Regards,
John Proch
La Grange, Texas

Picchio Special

In the first place, you're replying to a post that's 5 years old.
In the second place: of course it's a P-13.

miamijim

Andy,

Post some hi-res pics of the frame and we'll give opinions on what to do with it. Preserving originality is paramount....to certain extent as there's always a point at which its best to have it repainted. If repainting is needed there's only 1 place to have it done and thats Waterford.

All Paramounts were sold through Schwinn dealers. Prior to 1980 they were built in Schwinns Chicago plant or were out sourced to local builders. There is no way to tell if a Paramount is Chicago built or out sourced and it doesnt matter. Paramounts built prior to 1980 are considered to be 'Chicago' Schwinns. In 1980 Schwinn opened a new plant in Waterford, WI. Bikes/framesets built in this plant are known as 'Waterford' Paramounts. Waterford = Chicago Chicago = Waterford.

Richard Scwinn bought the Waterford facility when Schwinn went out of buisness/declared bankruptcy. Waterford is the place you'd want your frame restored if it needs it.

Picchio Special

I've seen Waterford restored Paramounts that are good, and some that are not so good. I think the recent ones I've seen have been better than the older ones, but that's subjective. I'd be very, very picky about lug lining in particular on a Paramount of the era(s) that would have that feature. It's done wrong a lot.

AndyGrow

The frame is still in the same condition as the first pictures I posted 5 years ago. All I've done up to this point is remove everything (components) from it. I'll get some new, GOOD Hi-Res pictures up in a day or so.

The thing is, I don't want it to just be some museum piece. I want to ride it. It was the first bike I ever rode when I was just starting road biking seriously. And yes, it's a bit small for me, I still want to ride it. I feel like if I'm going to ride it I need to preserve it a little better than how it is now.

Thanks for the replies over the past 5 years. I'll get those pictures up shortly!
Andy

bikenut2011

^^^^ dont quite understand why you feel it must be painted or cleared to preserve it...wouldnt a good wax job and inside storage do the same thing??? Puzzled

And how the heck do you keep a bike like that around for 5 years and not finish it and ride it??? I had my lowly 88 circuit tore down the same night i got it!!

andy

bassogap

The 49/52 chainrings would have worked well with a wider freewheel. Possibly a 14-24, but definately a 14-28. As others have said, this is called half-step gearing. I have a 47/52, 14-28 on my touring bike, and it's a great set-up.

AndyGrow

Kodiak, Alaska isn't exactly known for it's road cycling...!