Centurion Serial Number Database
02-28-08, 05:09 PM
#276
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T-Mar You are correct about the DS Expert # I forgot the " A" ,here is the corrected #N7A6468. It is all 105. The LeMans is not all 105 as I stated it has Sport LX derailers.It does have a true investment cast fork not welded as on the Ironman. Also the Sport DLX was purchased in 1986. The lady had the receipt but forgot to give it to me. The # on the Sport had two more very faint number on it. It could be a 82 or a 92. Here is what it could be F6108482 or F6108492. Has anyone seen this investment cast fork on a LeMans before?? Thanks for all your hard work on the Centurion bikes
Ed
Ed
Ok, that solves two out of the 3 and we were in the ballpark on both, so that's reassuring.
As for that LeMans, I just had an interesting development. I rec'd a PM about another LeMans with an F3xxxxx serial number and circa 1988 graphics. I've asked the owner to post it in the this thread so I can have a better look. Almost makes me wonder if someone at the factory accidently popped a 3, instead of an 8, into the stamping tool at the beginning of the year. After it had been installed there would be no reason to change it, until the mistake was noticed. It's pure specualtion, but it's a possible solution to why the circa 1988 models don't fit the pattern, yet are consistent.
I guess the other possibility with the LeMans is that it is a repaint with new decals, but it's funny that the derailleurs are from the 1989 era. I'm not sure about the fork crown on the 1988/1989 models. I'll have to do some digging, but I would think Unicrown for this period. It will be interesting to see what the other 1988 Lemans has, when it shows up.
02-28-08, 06:14 PM
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Unknown year Centurion Lemans. Identical paint to the 1988 Ironman Master, purple smoked fade to white, even the decals are similar, slightly bolder font on the CENTURION but still the little multi-colored ones. Has Centurion chainstay protector like my '89 DS Ironman Expert. Says Tange 2 seamless double butted on the seat tube. The decal at the base of the seat tube says Made in Taiwan, Designed in USA, identical to the '88 and '89 Ironman sticker, but they say made in Japan. The fork decals are identical to the fork decals on my '88 Ironman, but say Mangalloy instead of CroMo. The paint job is definitely original. Components are Shimano Exage brakes/calipers, but Shimano Sport LX shifters/FD/RD, and the running gear has white rubber accents on the shifters, white painted parts on the FD/RD. The crankset is 5-bolt Sugino. Hubs were Shimano Exage. The seller cobbled a lot of spare parts onto it, so the Titan deep V front rim is no clue. The rear rim is a Matrix that looks identical to the Araya Super Hard CTL-370's on my Ironman bikes, eyelets and all, but is dark gray. The handlebars have no name whatsoever, even under the tape. Stem had also been changed. Headset is an off brand, but matches a Tange Progress 1 pretty close, high crown on it. The bike was barely "as described" as far as condition, so I kept it for the most expensive set of parts I've ever bought. Serial # is F3105697.
T-Mar, the mystery either get deeper or it will soon all be clear. Just like geometry in 9th grade.....And thanks so much for all you do for us.
T-Mar, the mystery either get deeper or it will soon all be clear. Just like geometry in 9th grade.....And thanks so much for all you do for us.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 09-24-20 at 10:20 AM.
02-28-08, 09:32 PM
#278
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Eddy & Robbie,
I've done some more research and believe you are in the possession of 1989 models. I came up with a road test on a 1988 LeMans and it is spec'd with Exage Sport, so they are not 1988 models. Exage Sport morphed into Sport LX, , making them 1989 or a late 1988 transisiton models, and explaining the mix on Robbie's bicycle. We know they can't be 1990 or more modern, as Centurion rebranded itself as Diamondback for 1990. We also know that the smoke paint was first used in 1988 (on the Ironman models) so that also fits, at least for Robbie. The road test also mentions the 1988 as coming from Japan and both these bicycles have Taiwanese serial numbers, so again they should be late 1988 or 1989. BTW, the 1988 Lemans did have a traditional fork crown.
I'm still at a loss to provide a non-speculative reason as to why the serial numbers are F3xxxxxx and not F8xxxxxx or F9xxxxxx, but given that the serial numbers are so close (F3105691 and F3105697 are only 6 frames apart!) they should be from the same year. All the evidence is pointing towards a late 1988 transition model or a 1989 model. Personally, I suspect that they are 1989 models produced in very late 1988. Knowing the component date codes may help to corroborate this.
I've done some more research and believe you are in the possession of 1989 models. I came up with a road test on a 1988 LeMans and it is spec'd with Exage Sport, so they are not 1988 models. Exage Sport morphed into Sport LX, , making them 1989 or a late 1988 transisiton models, and explaining the mix on Robbie's bicycle. We know they can't be 1990 or more modern, as Centurion rebranded itself as Diamondback for 1990. We also know that the smoke paint was first used in 1988 (on the Ironman models) so that also fits, at least for Robbie. The road test also mentions the 1988 as coming from Japan and both these bicycles have Taiwanese serial numbers, so again they should be late 1988 or 1989. BTW, the 1988 Lemans did have a traditional fork crown.
I'm still at a loss to provide a non-speculative reason as to why the serial numbers are F3xxxxxx and not F8xxxxxx or F9xxxxxx, but given that the serial numbers are so close (F3105691 and F3105697 are only 6 frames apart!) they should be from the same year. All the evidence is pointing towards a late 1988 transition model or a 1989 model. Personally, I suspect that they are 1989 models produced in very late 1988. Knowing the component date codes may help to corroborate this.
02-29-08, 07:09 AM
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T-Mar,
As usual, you've come up with what I think is correct, but here's a possibility that supports the bikes being late 88 or early 89, since everything else points that way.
If you look at the pictures of my Lemans Serial #, the "3" in the serial number is rounded at the top and bottom, and we only get the right side of the numeral. If you look at the "3" in the frame number, the top of the "3" is the "buggy top" angular style, and not the round version.
This could very well be because the "3" in the serial number is actually an "8" and the rounding of the BB didn't match up well with the stamp, leaving off the left side, or the "8" stamp die was compromised.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it................... Nothing else gives me any indication it's other than a model mfg in late 88.
Since I've already decided to part it out, not much of an issue now, but if it HAD been in good condition, I'd be restoring it the best I can. As such, it's going to be a unique tool rack.
Thanks again, T-Mar, and if you ever come to our April Run/Bike/Eat triathlon, I'll pay your entry fee and seed you first......
As usual, you've come up with what I think is correct, but here's a possibility that supports the bikes being late 88 or early 89, since everything else points that way.
If you look at the pictures of my Lemans Serial #, the "3" in the serial number is rounded at the top and bottom, and we only get the right side of the numeral. If you look at the "3" in the frame number, the top of the "3" is the "buggy top" angular style, and not the round version.
This could very well be because the "3" in the serial number is actually an "8" and the rounding of the BB didn't match up well with the stamp, leaving off the left side, or the "8" stamp die was compromised.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it................... Nothing else gives me any indication it's other than a model mfg in late 88.
Since I've already decided to part it out, not much of an issue now, but if it HAD been in good condition, I'd be restoring it the best I can. As such, it's going to be a unique tool rack.
Thanks again, T-Mar, and if you ever come to our April Run/Bike/Eat triathlon, I'll pay your entry fee and seed you first......
02-29-08, 04:19 PM
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T-Mar It would seem the 1988-89 date is correct on my blue LeMans. Yesterday I was far from home and stopped in a thrift shop and there was two Centurions LeMans 12's sitting there. At first I thought someone had changer the handlebar but I then noticed both bikes are set up identical. One is Mixte and the other conventional frame Centurion.They are in nice condition and were very inexpensive so I bought them.I have seen no pictures of Centurion bikes with this style handlebar.The Gold one is a nice ride but the Mixte feels odd even though it is the identical set up.Mixte #M3M02311 {1983} Gold #N4H9286 {1984} One say Chanpion 5-Tange and the other Tange 900. Gold chain and sprocket, Suntour ARX. Are these handlebars common or do I have another odd setup?
Ed
Ed
Last edited by EddyR; 02-29-08 at 04:22 PM. Reason: speeeelingg
02-29-08, 08:05 PM
#281
Lanky Lass
I've often wondered about the handlebars on mixtes. It almost seems as if there was a choice between drops and upright bars.
My LeMans came with drops, and I prefer them that way!
East Hill
My LeMans came with drops, and I prefer them that way!
East Hill
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03-01-08, 08:30 PM
#282
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Eddy, the 1984 Lemnas 12 came with drop bars for both the standard and mixte version. My guess is that the two Lemans 12 were originally bought as a his and hers pair by a co-habiting couple who swapped out the original bars, resulting in them being identical. Then they were sold to swap shop as a pair.
Sometimes mixte frames were offered with flat or slight rise, non-drop bars and on vary rare occassions you had a choice. For instance, Peugeot's, boom era U018 miste came with flat bars, but there was also a UO18C mixte with drop bars (C = competition = drop bars?)
Sometimes mixte frames were offered with flat or slight rise, non-drop bars and on vary rare occassions you had a choice. For instance, Peugeot's, boom era U018 miste came with flat bars, but there was also a UO18C mixte with drop bars (C = competition = drop bars?)
03-01-08, 08:39 PM
#283
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T-Mar,
As usual, you've come up with what I think is correct, but here's a possibility that supports the bikes being late 88 or early 89, since everything else points that way.
If you look at the pictures of my Lemans Serial #, the "3" in the serial number is rounded at the top and bottom, and we only get the right side of the numeral. If you look at the "3" in the frame number, the top of the "3" is the "buggy top" angular style, and not the round version.
This could very well be because the "3" in the serial number is actually an "8" and the rounding of the BB didn't match up well with the stamp, leaving off the left side, or the "8" stamp die was compromised.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it................... Nothing else gives me any indication it's other than a model mfg in late 88.
Since I've already decided to part it out, not much of an issue now, but if it HAD been in good condition, I'd be restoring it the best I can. As such, it's going to be a unique tool rack.
Thanks again, T-Mar, and if you ever come to our April Run/Bike/Eat triathlon, I'll pay your entry fee and seed you first......
As usual, you've come up with what I think is correct, but here's a possibility that supports the bikes being late 88 or early 89, since everything else points that way.
If you look at the pictures of my Lemans Serial #, the "3" in the serial number is rounded at the top and bottom, and we only get the right side of the numeral. If you look at the "3" in the frame number, the top of the "3" is the "buggy top" angular style, and not the round version.
This could very well be because the "3" in the serial number is actually an "8" and the rounding of the BB didn't match up well with the stamp, leaving off the left side, or the "8" stamp die was compromised.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it................... Nothing else gives me any indication it's other than a model mfg in late 88.
Since I've already decided to part it out, not much of an issue now, but if it HAD been in good condition, I'd be restoring it the best I can. As such, it's going to be a unique tool rack.
Thanks again, T-Mar, and if you ever come to our April Run/Bike/Eat triathlon, I'll pay your entry fee and seed you first......
03-22-08, 07:10 PM
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Hello, I am looking for information on a ladies Centurion Le Mans I have. I'm guessing it was manufactured circa 1978? Its serial # M6D00056... Also, I'm wondering if they came standard with a bell, it has a bell with a flag of the United States painted on the top, in some internet-based research I noticed a very similar bike for sale on EBAY in Australia--the bike seemed to have the same bell, only with an Australian flag on it.
03-22-08, 08:47 PM
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Hello, I am looking for information on a ladies Centurion Le Mans I have. I'm guessing it was manufactured circa 1978? Its serial # M6D00056... Also, I'm wondering if they came standard with a bell, it has a bell with a flag of the United States painted on the top, in some internet-based research I noticed a very similar bike for sale on EBAY in Australia--the bike seemed to have the same bell, only with an Australian flag on it.
As for the bell, I suspect it is just coincidence. I do have a catlog pic of the 1975 LeMans and there is no bell shown.
If you could post pics of the bicycle it would be appreciated.
03-23-08, 06:54 PM
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So I thought I'd add pics of my Cinelli Equipe Centurion,
despite the fact that these 1985-only "project-bikes" have
no serial numbers, only a c-c sizing stamp on the underside
of the bottom bracket shell among the derailleur cable
guides.
www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion
I've also asked another Equipe owner post his pics here
because his example is the best I've seen monitoring eBay
for Equipes since the spring of 2003 when I bought mine.
I think the pics can be useful in identifying the Cinelli
Equipe and distiguishing it from "real Cinellis" in future.
I've seen a few of these passed off as real Cinellis on
eBay in the past and the frames are very close in appearance
to the Cinellis of the same period (ie. mid-80s).
.
despite the fact that these 1985-only "project-bikes" have
no serial numbers, only a c-c sizing stamp on the underside
of the bottom bracket shell among the derailleur cable
guides.
www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion
I've also asked another Equipe owner post his pics here
because his example is the best I've seen monitoring eBay
for Equipes since the spring of 2003 when I bought mine.
I think the pics can be useful in identifying the Cinelli
Equipe and distiguishing it from "real Cinellis" in future.
I've seen a few of these passed off as real Cinellis on
eBay in the past and the frames are very close in appearance
to the Cinellis of the same period (ie. mid-80s).
.
The bike appeared to be OEM except for a Shimano cassette; here's the lineup, front to rear:
Cinelli 66-38 Campione del Mondo bar on 95cm Cinelli black 1A stem, Ofmega headset.
Universal AER brakes and levers with DiaCompe hoods.
Campagnolo Record hubs on Sun M14 700c rims, 32 spoke.
Cinelli fork with chrome lugged crowns, panto'd in red and with red cutouts.
Cinelli frame panto'd on the seat stay caps and brake bridge, decal under the clear "Made in Italy."
The frame has chromed fork ends, crowns, R chain stay and Campagnolo chrome dropouts.
Cinelli BB, and no serial number.
Ofmega Mistral crankset, Omega Sintesi composite pedals w/Christophe clips and straps.
My BB is Campagnolo, I think some are Ofmega.
The shifter/FD/RD are Campagnolo Nuovo Record, Patent 1984.
It appears the shifters were panto'd in green, as was the brake bridge Cinelli logo, and both have faded or been polished off.
Hubs are Campagnolo Record on Sun M14 rim, 32 spoke, but the cassette may be Shimano, or at least the lock ring is.
The original was likely Regina, but if I can find Ti cogs, I'll use 'em.
Tires appeared to be OEM Continentals, were delaminating and pretty hardened on the sidewalls.
The seat post was the Campagnolo 2-pc with the Cinelli Volare black suede saddle.
Changes:
I'm a wide-body, so I had to change out the bars and stem to accommodate same, stayed with Cinelli both.
I have no idea what model the new bar is, but the stem pictured is an XR, I think. The tape is the new Cinelli carbon-look.
The tires went to Hutchinson Fusions, 700x20 front, 700x23 rear.
Not wanting to mess up a unique and fine saddle with my tired old butt, I opted for a Bianchi that matched the bike and me.
The original Cinells saddle is not NOS, but very close, including the stickers and side logos.
(A NOS just went for $237.85 on eBay, and as soon as I get it ready, mine will be up there.)
The original toe clips were black Christophe, and I bought a spare set of pedals from France which had chrome clips, and swapped them out.
Those are the only toe clips that fit that pedal that I've been able to find. I used freetranslation.com to message the seller.
Other:
Forgive me if the bike isn't perfectly clean. It's ridden. It went 10 pleasant miles yesterday and about 5 today.
I am currently addicted to my single-speed, or I'd have gone further today.
I don't like the bar tape, but will keep it until I decide whether or not to remove the anodize on the stem and polish it to mirror.
I also am slightly embarrassed by the seat post; I did not put the scratches on it, but I can sure get them off, and will.
I'm an Ironman fan, but A. Winthrop and T-Mar have been invaluable in learning about the Centurion lineup,
and perhaps I'll start a little tribe of my own. ....Well, probably.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 09-24-20 at 10:20 AM.
03-23-08, 07:23 PM
#288
Dropped
So where's the dirt?
Very nice. I like the choice of bar tape - sleek look. Wait until you see mine with orange, to match the orange decals! Those Universal AER's are also gorgeous looking calipers.
Seems we also have a couple differences in decals and placements. This bike was definitely built in Italy, not Japan - where's the consistency? (I'm allowed to say that, as I have relatives in Italy!). My 'Italia' decal is on the downtube, and the Equipe decal is below the Columbus decal. Also, my 'Italia' decal is a different variety.
Seems they also forgot to accent the Cinelli logo on the brake bridge. Italiani pigri!
Very nice. I like the choice of bar tape - sleek look. Wait until you see mine with orange, to match the orange decals! Those Universal AER's are also gorgeous looking calipers.
Seems we also have a couple differences in decals and placements. This bike was definitely built in Italy, not Japan - where's the consistency? (I'm allowed to say that, as I have relatives in Italy!). My 'Italia' decal is on the downtube, and the Equipe decal is below the Columbus decal. Also, my 'Italia' decal is a different variety.
Seems they also forgot to accent the Cinelli logo on the brake bridge. Italiani pigri!
Last edited by JunkYardBike; 03-23-08 at 07:55 PM.
03-23-08, 07:44 PM
#289
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It gets dirty, but if you check out the "Where does your bike sleep?" thread on C&V, you'll see that I need to clean it up before I hang it up, or I'll get pretty dirty doing it....
Can't wait to see yours, and hope you got your stem stuff worked out. Mine appear to all be 26.0, though I think that one you sent me has been polished to a 25.something. I'm saving the 66-38 for my son's Bianchi.
He's a big UNC fan, so after it gets blasted and painted Carolina blue and white, I told him he should find Dante Calabria, last "Italian" player for UNC, and we'll get it autographed......
I think the inconsistencies help support Italian manufacture. They crafted, they argued, they crafted, they argued. At least that was consistent!
I'm definitely coming to NJ for that Equipe ride, just waiting on the whether and the weather.
Ciao....
Can't wait to see yours, and hope you got your stem stuff worked out. Mine appear to all be 26.0, though I think that one you sent me has been polished to a 25.something. I'm saving the 66-38 for my son's Bianchi.
He's a big UNC fan, so after it gets blasted and painted Carolina blue and white, I told him he should find Dante Calabria, last "Italian" player for UNC, and we'll get it autographed......
I think the inconsistencies help support Italian manufacture. They crafted, they argued, they crafted, they argued. At least that was consistent!
I'm definitely coming to NJ for that Equipe ride, just waiting on the whether and the weather.
Ciao....
03-24-08, 02:29 PM
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Centurion Photo
1976? I don't think it has been ridden in yrs.
Last edited by ĦAuxilioĦ; 03-24-08 at 02:32 PM. Reason: photo
03-24-08, 06:56 PM
#292
Dropped
Oh, and by the way, my orange decals are cracked too.
Last edited by JunkYardBike; 03-24-08 at 09:01 PM.
03-24-08, 09:03 PM
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I'm quite impressed with the finish on RobbieTunes' Equipe. I'd seen a few photos, but none displaying it's full glory. You won't be getting any frame details in my shots - I decided not to touch the paint, including the minor rust, so as not to make it look worse. I'm hoping the orange/green color scheme distracts the eye from the wounded frame!
Oh, and by the way, my orange decals are cracked too.
Oh, and by the way, my orange decals are cracked too.
03-26-08, 08:47 PM
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Just to add one bit of data...
My Centurion Professional, which I believe to be a 1978, based on that date appearing on the hubs, has a serial number of:
M7070019
Pictures are at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/4382835...7604257636170/
It's a lovely bike... rides great, looks really sharp. Very Cinelli-esque.
Tim
My Centurion Professional, which I believe to be a 1978, based on that date appearing on the hubs, has a serial number of:
M7070019
Pictures are at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/4382835...7604257636170/
It's a lovely bike... rides great, looks really sharp. Very Cinelli-esque.
Tim
03-26-08, 08:56 PM
#296
Lanky Lass
Just to add one bit of data...
My Centurion Professional, which I believe to be a 1978, based on that date appearing on the hubs, has a serial number of:
M7070019
Pictures are at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/4382835...7604257636170/
It's a lovely bike... rides great, looks really sharp. Very Cinelli-esque.
Tim
My Centurion Professional, which I believe to be a 1978, based on that date appearing on the hubs, has a serial number of:
M7070019
Pictures are at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/4382835...7604257636170/
It's a lovely bike... rides great, looks really sharp. Very Cinelli-esque.
Tim
Wait until Ashley and Rob see this
.East Hill
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TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...
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TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...
03-28-08, 06:28 PM
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The cable guides are a nice touch, with the RD cable on top of the chainstay; I like that.
That is a bone bike, to be sure. Clean and precise, nice touches of chrome and detail.
Centurion should have kept that influence in their line.
Oooh yeah, better keep a lock on that one.
Very nice bike, Tim.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 04-02-08 at 09:50 AM.
03-30-08, 08:12 AM
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More about Centurion Professionals and Semis
Just to add one bit of data...
My Centurion Professional, which I believe to be a 1978, based on that date appearing on the hubs, has a serial number of:
M7070019
Pictures are at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/4382835...7604257636170/
It's a lovely bike... rides great, looks really sharp. Very Cinelli-esque.
Tim
My Centurion Professional, which I believe to be a 1978, based on that date appearing on the hubs, has a serial number of:
M7070019
Pictures are at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/4382835...7604257636170/
It's a lovely bike... rides great, looks really sharp. Very Cinelli-esque.
Tim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
CENTURION PROFESSIONAL (SEMI-PROFESSIONAL) CATALOG SPECS, CIRCA LATE '70s
Frame Size: 21.5", 22.5", 23.5", 24.5", 25.5"
Frame: Tange Champion No.1 double-butted chromoly tubing, forged tip.
Lugs: Centurion Professional
Fork: Tange Professional chromoly tubing, forged end
Head Set: Tange Levin (Tange Falcon)
Handle Bar: Sakae World Custom-SL alloy (Sakae World Randonneur alloy)
Stem: Sakae Royal-ESL (Sakae Royal)
Brakes: Dia-Compe Gran-Compe side pull (same but black)
Derailleurs: Suntour Cyclone front and rear, Cyclone shifter
(Suntour Cyclone F&R, Finger tip or PDL-M down tube shifters)
Cluster: Suntour Winner alloy 13-24 (Suntour Winner steel 13-24)
Chain: HKK Gold (D.I.D. chrome plated)
Crank Set: Sugina Mighty Custom 42-52 (Sunino Mighty Compe 42-52 black)
Pedals: MKS UR-K-Custom (MKS UR-K black)
Wheels: Araya 27x1 1/4 Soyo tubulars, stainless steel double butted spokes
(Araya 27x1 1/4 alloy clinchers, IRC 27x1 1/4 GSW Hi-Racer tires
stainless steel spokes)
Hubs: Sunshine Pro-Am low flange
Saddle: YFC Professional Super Soft (Elina Super-Pro)
Seat Post: Sakae RY-PI-ESL (Sakae RY-PI)
Extra: Toe clip and strap, fully reflectorized
Color: Pearlized, Ask for selection (pearlized orange, blue silver)
Weight: Approximately 23lbs for a 23.5" frame
--------------------------------------
LATE 1970s CENTURION SEMI-PRO GEOMETRY
A=23.5" frame
B=570mm
C=1010mm
D=420mm
E=600mm
F=68mm
G=73 degrees
H=73 degrees
I=50mm
Weight=21lbs
03-30-08, 12:44 PM
#299
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
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'88 Centurion Ironman Master in purple smoked fade
'89 Centurion Ironman Expert in black
'85 Centurion/Cinelli Equipe in silver
Not shown: '88 Ironman Master in grey marbled fade
'88 Ironman Master in purple smoked fade #2
and whatever else I'm lucky enough to pick up.
The only 3D headbadges I have are on a Shogun and a Raleigh.
'89 Centurion Ironman Expert in black
'85 Centurion/Cinelli Equipe in silver
Not shown: '88 Ironman Master in grey marbled fade
'88 Ironman Master in purple smoked fade #2
and whatever else I'm lucky enough to pick up.
The only 3D headbadges I have are on a Shogun and a Raleigh.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 09-24-20 at 10:20 AM.
