which bob jackson to get
 

so i have a neighbor who is selling a bob jackson with all shiman 600 ultegra and reynolds 753 for 400. it's in pretty good shape but the stem is stuck in the fork and he can't get it out and there is a small dent on the top tube. besides that is looks great and is in my size.
my cousins friend is selling a touring bob jackson in amazing shape with some campy stuff and it has 501 tubing. i have no idea what makes a touring bike diff from a regular bike. this bike is going for 300.
my question is, are either worth getting. i want a bob jackson and older one at that and they both r in my size. or should i just keep looking. i don't mind it being used.

a new one?

Touring bike is going to have a longer wheelbase and more relaxed angles to make it more stable with a load and a smoother ride. You sure the tourer is 501? Never knew BJ to use 501. The 753 bike is going to be a harsher ride...753 is considered a very stiff tube. The stem stuck is an issue that you would have to deal with, so consider that. Are they worth getting? Probably. Not enough info for me.

Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but there's recently been a lot of discussion about the "stiffness" of 753 tubing on the CR list (and I know Lynn's a lister) and the consensus was that 753 is actually a LESS stiff tube compared to 531 (all things being equal). Several CRers actually said 753 was very whippy, at least that's how I understood it giving the digest my usual quick scan. Anyhow, the geometry is going to make more difference, and the 753 is surely a more sporting bike and will ride like one...so the question is how much comfort and/or load-carrying is important to you? One thought: I recently encountered a stem where a cone-type expander had been so over-tightened it bulged the steering column and remained trapped in the bulge...very difficult to remove! I wonder if 753 used a thinner gauge steerer to match the thin walls of the tubeset?? If so, I'd watch out for possible bulging in addition to the usual corrosion/rust/cold-welding, especially if the stem bolt seems over-tight.

consider whether you actually need to remove the stem, other than for the sake of a curious overhaul.

If it's broke, for the love of christ don't fix it!

- Joel

Maybe I should read the thread...I clearly did not. Was not of immediate interest to me. I just regurgitated what I had always been lead to believe. :o

Was there a 753 steerer tube? Didn't most builders tend to stay with 531 for forks?

Don't know, but after posing the question I guess that there's not much variety in steerers, except the "rifled" ones in Columbus tubesets. I reckon that most builders would want the strongest piece of steel they can get for that bit, and wouldn't try to shave weight there. Modern practices with carbon fiber and aluminum steerers are another issue...

If the steerer tube is stuck factor in what it would cost for a bike shop to fix it and take that off of the price. Even if you do the work yourself. I have trashed enough frames not to want one with a dent in it. I take it as a sign of more serious, hidden damage. I would take the touring frame at that price or even higher but I love tourers. With a little work it could be worth far more.

I can't speak for steerer tubes, but I have a 90's lo-pro TT frame out in my conservatory right now that has 753 forks.

Years ago I saw a purple Masi 3v at Shaw's LWC. Should have picked that one up...

Funny that this thread has echoes in the CR list, cause just in the last couple days there was a mini-controversy there about the existence or 753 fork blades...are they real or no? Some posters said they didn't exist, but others say (like you) "No, I have the fork with the sticker on the blades right here". Most however agree that 753 forks will have a 531 steerer.

The forks are indeed there, and they indeed have a sticker. Also, the 753 sticker on the downtube says "753r Forkblades, Stays, and Butted Frame Tubes". That should be enough for the doubters, even on CR!

Isn't 753 off-topic for CR? Or was it introduced earlier than I thought?

Nothing is off-topic when those guys want to have a fight! But seriously, their cut-off date is '83 and even if it's built later they give special dispensation for "KOF" Keeper of the Flame bikes and builders. The doubters said that the label didn't necessarily tell the truth, but I'm inclined to believe that Reynolds was mostly reliable about their products...So, now the important questions: is your 753 bike "stiff" or "whippy"? And did the OP ever get one of those Bob Jacksons?

They suggest that Reynolds made 753 fork blade stickers, and downtube stickers that claimed 753 forks, but that no such thing existed? That's a pretty serious case of bicycle denial.

As far as whippiness, I barely rode it. I bought it to sell on, and though I did try to take it for my 20k training loop, the aero position was so extreme that my neck hurt after a mile, and I came back!

yea i actually got the 753. only because i don't tour and didn't want to deal with the relaxed geometry which generally means that i will be so uncomfortable. I haven't picked the bick up, but I'll let u all know how it goes. i might need some help with the removal of the stem if i decided to take it out. hopefully i won't have to. thanks for the great debate on the tubing.

Congrats on the Bob J! I'll tell you how I approach badly stuck stems: BEFORE you try any penetrating oil or spray, get the front wheel off, invert the bike and pour about a cup of pure household ammonia into the hole in the bottom of the fork. Let it work for a day. Pour it out and re-install the front wheel; clutch the wheel tight between your legs and grasp the handlebars giving the stem short, hard jerks side-to side...think "breaking action" cause you're trying to break a bond. If no luck, and I'm not trying to preserve a stem, I go to plan B: remove handlebars and front wheel, wedge forkblades against my 2x4 vertical workbench leg and whack that stem with a deadblow mallet...short, hard shocks. If ammonia doesn't get it, I go to plan C, spray or drip a good penetrant from below and above (NOT WD40, but something like Kroil--I used several brands I've had good results with, but the good ones aren't easy to find, Liquidwrench is OK but not great) GOOD LUCK, and don't give up-- eventually you WILL win. And you WILL need to get it out if you want to rebuild/repack/replace the headset--if the stem is rusty then the bottom headset bearings probably are too.