br995

I realize this probably doesn't qualify for classic and vintage, but this Gios Torino is older than most of the road bikes favored nowadays and thought someone here might be able to give me some insight into its quality and value.

I've searched the forums, and see that many people like the new bikes Gios makes, but that the older ones seem to not be worth much and apparently aren't such great quality.

According to the current owner it's built with Campy and Dura-ace parts, and the derailer is an Italian Gallia. A nice looking bike, but what's a reasonable price?

Side view
Fork
Crank
Head tube
Dropout/cassette


Thanks for any information.

cyclotoine

you have a gorgeous GIOS professional. I don't know where you heard the older ones weren't of great quality. They only built high end road racing bikes and are very valuable to collectors as far as I know. EVery GIOS I have ever seen is italian made and the older ones with columbus tube sets and campy drop-out which is the best money can buy. I didn't know the professional came with a chrome fork though. That would be a good indicator of year but what year I am not sure. Early 80s though I would think. That is a super cool read dearilleur. My only complain about the one GIOS I have encountered (also a professional and my girlfriend's bike) is that the paint is very brittle and chips easily.

EDIT: oh and reasonable price... well it looks like it has the original super record headset (seen them sell on ebay for over 100 US used and in good condition) and SR shift levers. I'd guess this bike was originally equipped with full SR (what are the hubs?) those are tubular tires (what kind of rims).. I would say $400 is reasonable. $300 is a great deal and $500 is pushing it but not unreasonable.

CV-6 

Looks like a GIOS Pro to me. Go to here for the bike in its original glory. The hodgepodge of parts definitely hurts its value. What is the seller asking?

cyclotoine

awe CV-6 has got it.

br995

He's asking $600. I'm not knowledgable about bikes, but know of the Dura-ace and Campy reputation, as well as the fact that it's a pretty nice looking bike. Didn't know if it would be worth even trying to negotiate down from that price, or if perhaps it was a pretty good deal.

Thanks all, for the information.

hiromian

$400 should buy it. Quality is tops. The frame is worth $300.

repechage

The asking price may not be that out of line. There is the price one wants to pay and the value... Does it fit? Gios bikes by this time have top tubes that were shorter than most for a given size back then, a bit ahead of their time I guess when looking at current trends.

The top tube in my size usually is 53.5 to 54cm for a 55cm ctc frame, I prefer a 55 to 56cm top tube, so no Gios for me, but I have one for the wife. Hers is the smallest they make. And she got the full panto stuff, lots of bling with that. At least at the local coffee house, it gets respect from the tourists, mods and the messengers.

unworthy1

I wouldn't sniff at a Gios Pro! This is a great bike, but $600 with that mix of parts is a little steep. Maybe could fetch that in NYC, but I'd offer a bit less...if you get it, and it fits you, you will be stoked.

Cleave

Hi,

Personally, I'd say 500 tops and that's pushing it.

The frame looks to be in mediocre condition with a lot of paint chips and rust forming on the fork. In fact (from experience) if you are starting to see rust on a chrome fork, then there is more that you can't see under the chrome. A Gios Professional frame is collectable but this one looks like it needs new paint and a lot of work on the fork if you don't want it to deteriorate more.

The Shimano parts from that era (and I have a bunch of them) were OK but IMHO not worth much from a collector's standpoint unless it was a complete group on a historically significant bike.

I see that the front derailleur is Campy as is the headset. Given the grime under the headset and the general lack of durability of Super Record headsets from the '80s, I would guess that the bottom cups are dimpled.

The Galli derailleur probably works OK. I used their cranks and brakes for a while during the mid '80s and they were passable but not very durable.

If you are getting it as a project bike to restore, then I agree with hiromian, try to get it for $300 (the value of the frame). If you are looking for a bike to ride, $400 is OK and enjoy riding it until stuff starts to break (parts not the frame).

BTW, the bike isn't on the stand properly. The bottom bracket should be resting on the little bent area lower on the stand. Also, the tires are shot.

Not trying to be overly critical of the bike but since you say that you don't know much about bikes I thought that I'd give you my long-winded opinion.

Citoyen du Monde

Gios has made more low end bikes than top of the line bikes in their history. In fact, they came to build top of the line racing bikes quite by chance and comparatively late (20 years after the company foundation) You must be able to find a written history of the company somewhere, but a short synopsis would be: They started building typical family bikes. They came to know the owner of a major confectionery maker. The candy maker wanted a prize to give away to contest winners, which Gios provided in teh shape of a high rise bike (then unknown in Italy). The contest was a huge hit and both Gios and the candy maker became much better known. After the contest, the same gentleman decided that he wanted to sponsor a racing team and asked Gios to provide teh bikes which he did (the Brooklyn chewing gum team). The team bikes were the first truly top of the line bikes that they made (in the 70's).

Walter

FWIW they still make them with just a few modern tweaks (spacing, replacable dropouts). Classic blue over a fully chromed frame. $795 w/o forks . If it's clean I'd agree that ~$400 ain't bad and less is better.






photo from Excel Sports catalog

55/Rad

What is the point of fully chroming the frame, then painting over 90% of it?

YoKev

Ah, so you saw that ad as well! Such a nice Gios

I guess you also saw the Dura-Ace component group for $100 as well? I almost made the drive up for that deal...almost...

Walter

I've wondered about the paint over chrome as well but, though not common, it's not a unique style of frame prep.

I've seen some threads (I think you started one?) about a "thin" lacquer over chrome to get a real shine on the final finish. That makes sense but chroming, then scuffing the chrome and applying the enamel paint is something I've thought strange since the first time I saw it back in the 70s.

The Gios blue is pretty though.

55/Rad

The Gios is gorgeous to be sure.

The problem I'm having is figuring out how they did it back in the 80's - applying paint directly over finished and un-scuffed chrome - and making it stick. Why there isn't a consensus today as to the best way to do it is beyond me - certainly some builders had success with it along with the ones that didn't.

And the big question would be why they did it in the first place? Why not just chrome the areas that were intended to be left exposed and leave the rest alone to be painted over? I'm sure economics played some part but it's still somewhat of a mystery - to me anyway.

55/Rad

unworthy1

Transparent lacquer over chrome, nickel or even metallic paint is a time-honored bike finish that the British call 'flamboyant' (back in the '40s, no less) and the Italians call 'cromovelato', amongst other names. When the hotrod car customisers started doing it to cars it came to be called 'candy apple' or 'candy colored' in the US. Only makes sense when the final top coat is at least partially transparent, and the Gios blue I've seen looks opaque to me. Given how easily most paint chips off a chrome undercoat, I think Gios made a decision based on expediency: since they leave bits of exposed chrome on many points all over the frame, they just figured it was simpler to dip it all.

55/Rad

So here is the frustrating part.

Below are 3 pictures of the same 1988 Pinarello Montello frameset I recently purchased.

First picture is how it arrived, with it's clear black over chrome appearance. And while the paint was still in fairly good shape given its age, I felt compelled to strip it.

Which is what you see in picture #2. Doesn't look too bad and the chrome is in really good shape - if you like the full chrome look.

Picture 3 is a photoshop rendition (thanks ViperZ!) of a simple idea that one would figure wouldn't be too hard to execute. Essentially, it's restoring the frame to its original form with a clear-color-over shiny-chrome appearance but with 2 changes - a different color and leaving big areas of chrome exposed.

How hard can this be given the original paint or powder was applied in the late 80's to apparently good success?

After talking to 4 frame painters, there is no consensus on how to do it - be it wet paint or powdercoat - nor how to effectively prep the chrome without damaging it so the paint or powder will actually stick.

One thing I can say - all four wanted to try but without blasting or etching the chrome, they couldn't guarantee it would work.

Frustrating.

55/Rad

55/Rad

And finally - below is a photo of a different Pinarello - one where the owner had a similar situation and idea but chose to blast or etch the chrome. Note that the color on it, just like that of the Gios Compact Pro, is opaque and renders the chrome underneath virtually meaningless.

unworthy1

Isn't the magic of Photoshop wonderful? For people who actually can use it, that is...it just kicks my a**, but that's another story. I think you should have no trouble getting a beautiful 'flamboyant' job using transparent paint with careful tape masking (hint: I use diluted rubber cement and brush to mask complex shapes, silmilar to the liquid maskoid airbrush artists use). But you don't want to etch, blast or primer the chrome to get maximum "flam". So try for the most durable transparent paint you can find, maybe some of today's sythetics are improvements over traditional lacquers. Powder coating would be very durable, and probably adheres well to slick chrome, but it's thick, need to be masked with heat-proof tape (limiting) and I don't know what you will find that's transparent. Typically, these older "flam" paint jobs need to be babied cause they are delicate and prone to chip...or you just get used to repainting them regularly as they get used and tattered.

lotek 

Rad,

I might have a conversation with Brian Baylis or Joe Bell about painting
a Chromovelato finish. I'm sure that they have some idea of how it was done etc.
FWIW my de Reus (no I wont drag that pic out again) is paint over chrome, I can
see it below a few paint chips, and it is not a chromovelato finish, it's fully opague
paint.

marty

de paletti

I read this with interest. I've got a Gios in my small collection, a kind of Puzzle, as I rebuilt it with Campy Nuovo Record parts that I took of from a used Liotto bike, - the Liotto frame was too small for me. The frame of the Gios was hanging in the cellar of a bike dealer, a small but fine shop. A late seventies frame, in a metallic shaped dark blue, painted the thin way they did back then - and exactly the size I needed.
To me, this bike means a lot. I wouldn't give it away, especially now as Gios will be produced in Japan. It seems one of the Gios-brothers goes on with the bike production in Italy, I just read that this morning. But the days of this kind of beautiful bicycles seem to be gone forever.
If You can get Your frame for 300$ or even 400$ - go for it. Then try to get a Nuovo Record or super record group together (I just put super record break levers on) . You can refresh the paint on Your frame, just have a look first if it is really necessary. Then start the rebuilt. That may take a year or so, but if You love classic or vintage bikes, I think a Gios is always worth it.
Here's a pic of mine:

EjustE

This frame by itself has a street value of about $500 and those Campy headsets go for $80. Just letting you know

de paletti

Hello Ejust,
You are talking about money value - that's ok. But I just have some older bikes ( and only older ones ) as I love to ride them, to work on them and just to look at the special beauty of steel frame bikes.
I've got four of them, and that's enough. Maybe in a while I'll built up a french-style "Randonneuse" aswell.
They are meant for my kids - a humble contribution to the bikes from the time when I was young. They are not meant for sale, nor meant to be show bikes.
Here's a pic of the one I remade for a friend, just before the Gios... it's just fun doing these things on winter evenings. The bike is a 1963 belgian Thompson.
I try to post the pic, must have made a mistake.

de paletti

Here it is:

Chombi

That's just the way they all did it back n the 80's, so it's nothing unusual. The consequence to it was, they ended up with "quick release" paint that had a hard time sticking to the chrome. Cioccs were one of the worst at this. I remember looking at brand new Ciocc frames hanging from the walls at my LBS back in college and their paint was starting to flake and chip off before my eyes even before the frame was built up into a bike. Otherwise they were beautiful looking frames.

About this Gios frame, note that there is rust that seems to be starting to develop at the BB junction and the bottom of the head tube. I think that this frame could use a rust cleanup and a repaint to stop the corroision that already started.
I would consider paying a bit less than if the bike's finish was in better condition.
The Galli Derailleurs seems to be in new condition, but these do not command that much money these days and could be on their way to becoming mostly forgotten "orphan" Italian components (Ofmegas seem to even get more name recognition these days)
All in all, this Gios frame seems to be a good candidate for a full ground-up restoration. Most likely a full refinish and procurement of a full gruppo (Campy NR or SR).

Chombi