Sears (Puch) 5-speed townie
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Sears (Puch) 5-speed townie
Here's what the corner thrift coughed up this week for $30: an old ('68-'72, I think) Puch & Roebuck 5-speed. Straight tin, good chrome, lights even work, still got the original Semperit whitewalls. It's got an old Shimano Lark derailleur, plus something I've never seen before; the spoke protector is labeled 'Speed Selector' and has a slot in it marked 1 through 5 (see pics). Above the slot it says 'Turn this disc to select gear changing point'. What the heck is that?! Anyone know anything about it?
Goes down the road great. And check out that chainwheel; the bugger's the size of a manhole cover.
Goes down the road great. And check out that chainwheel; the bugger's the size of a manhole cover.
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Talk about a time machine! Very cool find, Mike. You'll be cruising around with a pipe in one hand, I imagine (and not a water pipe, either).
Neal
Neal
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The spokes are a little rusty. That spoke protector is a marketing gimmick.
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Originally Posted by DieselDan
The spokes are a little rusty.
And it's pretty obvious that Speed Selectis a marketing gimmick, but what I want to know is how was it supposed to work?
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Is it possible that the speed selector is a kind of auto-shift device? It kind of sounds like the mechanism that is described for "Auto-bikes"....the disk flexes with speed and nudges the derailleur to shift**********
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
Is it possible that the speed selector is a kind of auto-shift device? It kind of sounds like the mechanism that is described for "Auto-bikes"....the disk flexes with speed and nudges the derailleur to shift**********
If it is some sort of autoshift, it clearly isn't doing anything; it rides and shifts like any other bike. Weird; can't find anything about it on the web, either...
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I must admit to curiosity getting the better of me.
Here's a cronologic reference ofr 1965. https://www.bikemagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=1955
Patent information: https://www.freepatentsonline.com/5295916.html I'd love to see the drawings.
Here's a cronologic reference ofr 1965. https://www.bikemagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=1955
Patent information: https://www.freepatentsonline.com/5295916.html I'd love to see the drawings.
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Originally Posted by Stacey
Here's a cronologic reference ofr 1965. https://www.bikemagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=1955
Patent information: https://www.freepatentsonline.com/5295916.html I'd love to see the drawings.
Patent information: https://www.freepatentsonline.com/5295916.html I'd love to see the drawings.
The clue here is that the freewheel drives the rear hub via the axle, rather than directly. I suspect this rear hub includes a Model T style 2-speed epicyclic system, but with a centrifugally set automatic shift point. The manual rotation of the spoke protector determines the wheel (and therefore ground) speed at which it shifts into the high gear range, which is probably direct drive. As you hold the wheel and turn the cogset manually, you are engaging the low gear range, via the reduction gears of the epicyclic gearset. Thus, you have a conventional 5-speed manual transmission with two automatically-set ranges.
The fact that there are coincidentally 5 click-stops on the pie plate and 5 cogs on the freewheel perhaps confuses the issue a bit.
Try riding it and see if you can discern a (noticeable!) shift, probably from a 4:3 reduction to 1:1, about the same as a Sturmey Archer AW going from 1st to 2nd or a chainring switch from 39 to 52. (There's another hint: instead of a typical 46T compromise chainring, this thing can use a 52, because the reduction system provides the missing matching 39 or 40T small ring.)
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
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Hmmmm; fascinating. When I get it cleaned up and screwed back together I'll set it on the lowest setting and see if I can get it to do anything.
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Originally Posted by John E
The cited patent (1992-1994) is 25 to 30 years too late for the mechanism pictured.
The fact that there are coincidentally 5 click-stops on the pie plate and 5 cogs on the freewheel perhaps confuses the issue a bit.
The fact that there are coincidentally 5 click-stops on the pie plate and 5 cogs on the freewheel perhaps confuses the issue a bit.
Last edited by amnomad; 01-12-07 at 12:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by John E
The cited patent (1992-1994) is 25 to 30 years too late for the mechanism pictured.
The clue here is that the freewheel drives the rear hub via the axle, rather than directly. I suspect this rear hub includes a Model T style 2-speed epicyclic system, but with a centrifugally set automatic shift point. The manual rotation of the spoke protector determines the wheel (and therefore ground) speed at which it shifts into the high gear range, which is probably direct drive. As you hold the wheel and turn the cogset manually, you are engaging the low gear range, via the reduction gears of the epicyclic gearset. Thus, you have a conventional 5-speed manual transmission with two automatically-set ranges.
The fact that there are coincidentally 5 click-stops on the pie plate and 5 cogs on the freewheel perhaps confuses the issue a bit.
Try riding it and see if you can discern a (noticeable!) shift, probably from a 4:3 reduction to 1:1, about the same as a Sturmey Archer AW going from 1st to 2nd or a chainring switch from 39 to 52. (There's another hint: instead of a typical 46T compromise chainring, this thing can use a 52, because the reduction system provides the missing matching 39 or 40T small ring.)
The clue here is that the freewheel drives the rear hub via the axle, rather than directly. I suspect this rear hub includes a Model T style 2-speed epicyclic system, but with a centrifugally set automatic shift point. The manual rotation of the spoke protector determines the wheel (and therefore ground) speed at which it shifts into the high gear range, which is probably direct drive. As you hold the wheel and turn the cogset manually, you are engaging the low gear range, via the reduction gears of the epicyclic gearset. Thus, you have a conventional 5-speed manual transmission with two automatically-set ranges.
The fact that there are coincidentally 5 click-stops on the pie plate and 5 cogs on the freewheel perhaps confuses the issue a bit.
Try riding it and see if you can discern a (noticeable!) shift, probably from a 4:3 reduction to 1:1, about the same as a Sturmey Archer AW going from 1st to 2nd or a chainring switch from 39 to 52. (There's another hint: instead of a typical 46T compromise chainring, this thing can use a 52, because the reduction system provides the missing matching 39 or 40T small ring.)
Nonetheless, it's a unique of bicycle drive line history. I'd say it's a keeper! I've never seen anything like it.
It will be interesting to see a 'report from the saddle'.
#19
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Originally Posted by amnomad
Maybe that allows you to decide which cog you want to be on when it goes from low to high range, like when I'm in 5 gear and reach a certian speed I want to switch to the higher range, ie 6th gear. Does that make sense? I guess so if you want you can go directly from 2nd gear to "7th" gear.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
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Well, I put a couple miles on it and if the hub is doing anything, I can't discern it. I'm thinking perhaps the alleged planetary gears haven't seen any lubrication in a long time. I'll shoot some light oil in the axle and see if it changes anything.
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Originally Posted by mswantak
Well, I put a couple miles on it and if the hub is doing anything, I can't discern it. I'm thinking perhaps the alleged planetary gears haven't seen any lubrication in a long time. I'll shoot some light oil in the axle and see if it changes anything.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
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I'll have to file that along with life's other great unknowables: I sold the Puch today for $140 to a woman who drove all the way down from Napa. My burning curiosity will have to be sated by a quick $110 profit.