Motobecane Grand Jubile question
 

For reasons which grow harder and harder to explain on The Home Front, the herd expanded again today:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...4267&rd=1&rd=1
with the link being the auction through which I picked up a Grand Jubile frame with headset, stem and bars for $70+shipping. Not a great deal, but a price within reason for a 531 frame in my size, particularly if it has the cool Nervex lugs, which I think it does. But I digress ...

Based on the apparent age in the photos - and here I'm guessing 1972-ish, based on the script style, the construction from 531, the lugs, and the headbadge - was this bike built for 27" or 700c wheels? And is the rear spacing probably 120mm? In anticipation of its arrival, I'm going to dig through the parts pile for wheels, hubs, brakes etc. in coming to some decisions about what to do with it when it arrives ...

Thanks.

Whoa! That's a great price for a GJ frameset! well, at least decent, and it is your size! Nice score. (I had to sneak the last one in while she was sleeping. ;) Didn't want to have to explain the inexplicable at that moment... )

27" wheels, definitely, although if you don't care about period correct, you could probably put 700c on it. As I understand it, they were only 27' in the U.S. anyway; in Europe, they would have been 700c. *I think.*

Rear spacing should be 120 mm.

I have a scan of the the '78 catalog if you want to know the original specs (for a '78 at least.).

Yeah, I think that's definitely a good price...I have no problem paying $75 for one in my size considering I have so many spare parts, which it sounds like you do as well. I just sold a Raleigh Gran Sport 531 frameset w/o stem or bars for twice that. And it definitely has Nervex lugs.

Nice score!

Check the BB threads when it arrives. They probably Swiss threads.

I've got a GJ about '74 vintage. It's got a Stronglight 49 crankset, Huret Jubilee gearchangers, Weinmann centerpulls. Mine came with 27" wheels (Normandy hubs with Weinmann rims)...not sure if the wheels were original. I've since put 700c on it.

I think the GJ was a very good mid-range bike, probably under-rated in it's day.

Were those Jubilee derailleurs stock?

Yes, the Huret Jubilee derailleurs, shifters, cable guides etc. were stock on the GJ as was the Stronglight 49 crankset.

I tend to shy away from French bikes, simply because of the threading surprises. For the price I think yuo did ok in your size.

Exactly... hence the name... Grand "Jubile."

The model up was a Grand "Record." And, you guessed it, it had Campagnolo Nuovo Record Shifters, derailleurs, cable guides, etc., and had a Specialites TA crank. The Record also had a 531 fork... which I don't think the Jubile had.

Both bikes are very nice! And you got a good deal. It will make an excellent fixed gear if you want to, because it does not have any braise-ons. My guess is that it is around a 74-75. Early seventies models had a decal as the headbadge and a script "Motobecane" logo on the downtube.

I got one also!
 

A while back I did the Ebay thing and purchased an early '70s GJ. It was mostly complete. The owner had striped and repainted it blue but never fully assembled. It had the rear Jubilee changer but no front. Also included the huret shifters. Sidepull Weinmann 500 brakes. 27" Ridga (sp?) steel wheels. My size (63cm). Definately a project but I only paid $40.00 and it was local so I avoided shipping! Quite a number of small items missing ie. cables and housings, handle bar tape and hardware bits and pieces. Have been picking up here and there and about to reassemble.

In '73, at age 23, I bought my first bike a UO8. Still have it and love it as my daily rider. In '74 wanted something higher end so bought a Moto Grand Record. Black with Red. The most beautiful bike I have ever seen!!!! Definately a high pride in ownership item. Unfortunately someone liked it as well. Broke into our garage and stole it in '75. Only thing taken. I have pined for that bike all these years.

I plan on stripping the GJ and repaint/restore it to Black & Red of my long lost GR. Will be GJ but that's just fine.

Recently as I approach 60, I've rekindled my passion for biking in general and French bikes particularly. Hope you are as excited about your project as I am about mine.

Scott

Keep in mind that if you convert to 700C on a Jubilee originally designed for 27", that you will have to use either the longest-reach Weinmann 999 centerpull made (with the brake blocks near the bottom), or one of those ridiculously long Weinmann or Universal sidepulls.

Not worth it, asthetically, to 700C a Jubilee.

-Kurt

Thanks, folks; sounds like cheap parts, or parts out of the ready bin, won't be what this one is about. Assuming Swiss thread BB, and 27" wheels, preliminary research points to a new BB through Sheldon's company, or Phil Wood, and the wheels might give me an excuse to try wheelbuilding for the first time. I like the singlespeed/fixie suggestion; I've got a lonely Campy high-flange front hub with the flat skewer looking for a home, and that with a new high-flange flip-flop might turn out pretty cool.

So, when she arrives, after a good clean/rust abatement session I think she'll take third place at the back of the queue behind the Bob Jackson and the Peugeot PKN, waiting for the **several** hours and few hundred that it's going to take to get it done right ...

You know, I see black and red Grand Records on eBay all the time. Probably not for as good a price as you got on this Grand Jubile, but they are available. Keep in mind, the difference between the two is the GJ was 531 main tubes, the GR was full 531.


Sounds like a very classy build. Can't wait to see the results.

Ebay Grand Records
 

I have also seen a number of the GR on Ebay. Just looking brings back fond memories. I've even bid on a few. Always end up waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than I'm willing to go. I'm aware of the limited use of 531 to main tubes only. Compared to my UO8 that's ok. I weight about 190#. At this point, a couple of extra pounds in the frame really isn't that big a deal. My experience is that rolling weight matters much more than frame weight anyway. When I put a pair of 700c tubular wheels on the Peuguot it made all the difference in the world. I plan on moving those wheels to the GJ. That combined with the TA crankset I EBayed will make the GJ a very nice ride almost equal to my long lost GR.

That's a decent price. I'd say it's pretty much in line with what 531 Moto frames go for on eBay.

~2 years ago I picked up a '78GJ complete for $80 but by then they had switched to Vitus 888 tubing and SunTour/Sugino drivetrain. The 888 ain't bad but Reynolds 531 is better. The ST stuff, to be honest, works better than the Huret or even Campy I've seen on some GJs but doesn't have the "panache."

FWIW my bike took 700C with the stock Weinman sidepulls. The rear just fit but it did indeed. I don't know if the specs carried over from the 531 frames or not but I'd say you at least got a chance. Assuming you have a 700C wheel sitting around it'll just take a minute or 2 to find out. If it doesn't, I'd agree with Kurt and stay at 27".

Good luck on the build.


:beer:

Hey, Blue Order,

I'd love to see scans of that catalog. If it's the one with a night shot of the Eiffel Tower thru the spokes of a front wheel I have very fond memories of that catalog and often hunt eBay looking for one.

Apologies for the hijack....

:beer:

I had to hold off on bidding on that one (too big)
Nice score. Glad the price stayed down.
:beer:

700c work fine on my GJ with the original Weinmann centerpulls.

I got my mid 70s GJ as a frame with a good condition BB & Stronglight headset. These frames are nice for a mix & match build. I used some forged DiaCompe centerpulls that are knockoffs of the Weinmanns & they fit with a 700c Araya semi aero wheel set on Mavic hubs, so if you can't find Weinmanns, get the more common DiaCompes. I was able to trade for a bar & stem off a friend's Grand Record. Shimano 600 "leFleur" shift levers & front/rear derailleurs go well on a GJ. I used the 600 crankset for a while then switched to a Stronglight triple. Look forward to pics of your build. Don

I dunno. Doesn't look too bad to me. ;)

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...d/DSC03128.jpg

IIRC, the brake bridge on mine was considerably farther from the rim. Possibly a design revision?

-Kurt

Very nice!

As far as I know, the French bikes only had 27" wheels in the North American market. In the European market, they would have been 700c. Therefore, a 700c conversion is only "wrong" if you want a North American spec'd French bike.

As far as I know....

But does that mean that the U.S. spec 27"-wheel frames and Euro-spec 700C frames were built with the same wheel/tire clearance?

-Kurt

I think they're the same frames, but fitted with different size wheels. I *think.* Keep in mind, there isn't much difference between 27" and 700c to begin with-- something like 4mm difference in clearance.