Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

80's Campy Victory derailleur peformance?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

80's Campy Victory derailleur peformance?

Old 08-18-07, 05:57 PM
  #26  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,822 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by luker View Post
But...I have a drawer in my garage just for worn out campy derailleurs
Any for trade?

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-18-07, 06:01 PM
  #27  
luker
juneeaa memba!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Posts: 5,632

Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
would you like a worn out croce derailleur? I haven't any idea what a good trade for that would be...

<edit!>I'd be looking for six speed XT stuff...got any?</edit>
luker is offline  
Old 08-19-07, 09:42 PM
  #28  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
I mentioned that I wanted to try to get my Simplex SX610 to index. Well I just read that someone got them to index using Shimano 6 or 7 speed shifters and freewheels. It should work just as well with cassettes. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to.

Last edited by Grand Bois; 08-19-07 at 09:58 PM.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 08-19-07, 11:02 PM
  #29  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,822 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by luker View Post
<edit!>I'd be looking for six speed XT stuff...got any?</edit>
Not presently...I'll let you know if anything pops up. Want a beat '90s Deore LX?

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-19-07, 11:13 PM
  #30  
cyclotoine
Senior Member
 
cyclotoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Posts: 8,772
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by luker View Post
would you like a worn out croce derailleur? I haven't any idea what a good trade for that would be...

<edit!>I'd be looking for six speed XT stuff...got any?</edit>
Got any links to photos? I know where there is an old deore derailleur with blue on it... you know the one?



I guess that is too early... can you link to pics of what you are looking for?
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline  
Old 08-19-07, 11:48 PM
  #31  
joe v
Senior Member
 
joe v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 664

Bikes: ca.1975 Gitane Interclub - 90's Colnago Master Competition- ca.'84 Merckx Corsa - '77 Groene Leeuw - ca. '78 Guerciotti - ca.1984 L'Express - 1974 Gitane 'Super Olympic' - Peugeot 1981 PXN10 - 1975 Peugeot PR10 -1974 Norta -1974 Peugeot PX10 LE

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dirtdrop View Post
I've wanted to try a Victory ever since I read Frank Berto's upgrading book. Not many of them show up on eBay. That may just mean that they never sold many of them. They had no snob appeal.

Well, this thread has taken care of that then!
joe v is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 02:28 PM
  #32  
elguicho 
Restore, ride, repeat...
 
elguicho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 403
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry to revive such an old thread but I was wondering how many speeds can an 85' Victory RD handle? Could it handle 8 speeds? Am I pushing it? I'm trying to finish a project and this is the last step.
elguicho is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 04:15 PM
  #33  
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,770

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Campagnolo did offer an adapted cable adjuster later on though, but for purposes of Syncro indexed shifting.
-Kurt
Wha? Gran Sports had cable adjusters! I think they figured they weren't really needed.
dbakl is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 04:58 PM
  #34  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,822 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
Wha? Gran Sports had cable adjusters! I think they figured they weren't really needed.
Not all generations of Gran Sport had the adjuster barrel. They were pretty ineffective, at any rate - they don't offer much adjustment, and the double-locknut setup is difficult to work with.

-Kurt
__________________








Last edited by cudak888; 03-23-11 at 05:01 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 05:02 PM
  #35  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,494

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1997 Post(s)
Liked 834 Times in 510 Posts
Originally Posted by elguicho View Post
Sorry to revive such an old thread but I was wondering how many speeds can an 85' Victory RD handle? Could it handle 8 speeds? Am I pushing it? I'm trying to finish a project and this is the last step.
I think it would, my Triomphe handles 7 quite easily. trial and error may be your friend here.
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 05:53 PM
  #36  
ORS
Junior Member
 
ORS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've been running an '85 Victory RD for six months now with nary a problem on a six-speed 13-21.

Until today

For some inexplicable reason, when shifting to the 21 sprocket, the chain over-shot into my beautiful stainless, double-butted aero spokes, ripping out five in the process Needless to say, this left a seriously disfigured and inoperative wheel, leaving me no option but to call a taxi-sag-wagon for the four mile trip home.

I'll rebuild it at the weekend. Never, in all my years .....
ORS is offline  
Old 09-08-16, 07:51 AM
  #37  
cycledog1
Senior Member
 
cycledog1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: vancouver WA
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by elguicho View Post
Sorry to revive such an old thread but I was wondering how many speeds can an 85' Victory RD handle? Could it handle 8 speeds? Am I pushing it? I'm trying to finish a project and this is the last step.
its an even older thread now - but I'm wondering if any of you have used the victory RD s3 for up to 13-28 or 30? it was spec'd up to 30 on the rear, but not sure if it really worked that well, ie, got up there easily without the pully or cage hitting. the b adjustment looks like it could work ----------- but I'm replacing my NR and thought this would be a good derailleur to get the extra hills while keeping everything else intact(not a triple)

any thoughts?
cycledog1 is offline  
Old 09-08-16, 10:13 AM
  #38  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,494

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1997 Post(s)
Liked 834 Times in 510 Posts
Are you referring to the First, short cage, or the Leisure, long cage, version?

I am not sure I may have a 28 on one of my bikes I'll try and remember to check when I get home.
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 09-26-20, 10:33 AM
  #39  
bertinjim 
Senior Member
 
bertinjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 1,306

Bikes: 1960s Bertin C37, 1973 Carre Bertin C 37, 1970s Carlton Kermesse, 1982 Peugeot PB 12

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 82 Posts
Grand Bois-

Simplex SX 610s will index. I did mine with a Sachs ARIS 6 speed set of shifters, an ARIS Maillard 6spd freewheel and a Sedisport chain. Use SIS type cable sheathing and it will index impeccably. And yes, the adjuster really is necessary to fine tune the shifting. Ultimately, I decided I liked my Simplex Retrofrictions better but it is a viable and very effective option. Still have the ARIS shift levers, oddly.
bertinjim is offline  
Old 09-26-20, 01:33 PM
  #40  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,147

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked 88 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
Front deraiileur: not so bad, kept within its limits.
Rear derailleur: never going to equal a Superbe or Sprint...but you might get used to it.
I believe this is a good description.
Victory is a nice solid mech but shift with care.
embankmentlb is offline  
Old 09-26-20, 01:44 PM
  #41  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,328

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .....Raleigh "Super GP"...... ........................................

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Liked 419 Times in 269 Posts
Where does the "980" fit in the Campy lineup?
branko_76 is offline  
Old 09-26-20, 03:25 PM
  #42  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,494

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1997 Post(s)
Liked 834 Times in 510 Posts
Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
Where does the "980" fit in the Campy lineup?
The 980 was below the Triomphe
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Likes For Bianchigirll:
Old 09-26-20, 03:55 PM
  #43  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,328

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .....Raleigh "Super GP"...... ........................................

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Liked 419 Times in 269 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
As for the rear, Campagnolo Victory performs excellent over narrow-range freewheels, due mainly in part to the adjustable (but once adjusted, fixed-position) B-angle of the derailer. You can set the front pulley wheel very close to the cogs (and quite a ways in front) on a narrow range freewheel, and recieve superb shifting. For that matter, it also provides excellent chain wrap). See below photo ('87 Victory S3 shown):

On wide-range clusters, however, a derailer with spring-loaded top pivots outshine the Victory derailer, as you are limited as to your B-angle adjustment by that large cog. Chances are you won't be using a Victory derailer in this case (unless it is the Victory LX touring RD), so it doesn't particularly matter. See the not-too-extreme example below ('85 Victory RD):

As for the LX touring variant...not so hot. As mentioned above, the B-angle has to be adjusted to the point where the foward pulley wheel no longer sits foward of the freewheel or cassette's centerline when

Incedentally, although it may look virtually identical, the Triomphe derailer is considerably worse then the Victory. Like the NR, it has a fixed top pivot stop, but in an effort to give it better chain wrap-up capacity, the fixed stop was designed to leave the derailer paralellogram nearly vertical. The result? A foward pulley wheel that constantly remains behind the centerline of the freewheel, providing substandard performance. Using Triomphe RDs in conjunction with early Shimano 600 Uniglide freewheels seem to help though - I also suggest this freewheel in conjunction with the Victory for superb shifting.
I'm guessing that the adjustable "B" angle Victory shares a common angle with the non-adjustable Triomphe, is this correct?
branko_76 is offline  
Old 09-26-20, 04:04 PM
  #44  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,494

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1997 Post(s)
Liked 834 Times in 510 Posts
Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
I'm guessing that the adjustable "B" angle Victory shares a common angle with the non-adjustable Triomphe, is this correct?
All the CampI derailleurs were pretty much the same from the Record to the C-Rec. Some of the later ones had the B screw or that little insert. The Chorus was the real first departure from this decades old design
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Likes For Bianchigirll:
Old 09-26-20, 05:34 PM
  #45  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,822 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
I'm guessing that the adjustable "B" angle Victory shares a common angle with the non-adjustable Triomphe, is this correct?
In a sane world, yes. But the answer is no. Triomphe duplicates the nearly-vertical position of 980/990. Victory is superior in this regard, even when set at its most straight-up position.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:
Old 09-26-20, 06:23 PM
  #46  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 4,634

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1900 Post(s)
Liked 2,138 Times in 1,197 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
On wide-range clusters ... chances are you won't be using a Victory derailer in this case unless it is the Victory LX touring RD.
Not super wide-range, but I'm running 13-25t and 14-28t Sunrace 7-speeds with my two Victory rd's. The stop piece is positioned so the derailleur is furthest back with both.


...
SurferRosa is offline  
Likes For SurferRosa:
Old 09-26-20, 10:46 PM
  #47  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,328

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .....Raleigh "Super GP"...... ........................................

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Liked 419 Times in 269 Posts
Below are the 980, Triomphe and Victory, in that order. I now see the difference between the adjustable Victory and the others.

So, does each unique angle have an optimum cog size it was designed for?



branko_76 is offline  
Old 09-26-20, 10:56 PM
  #48  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 4,634

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1900 Post(s)
Liked 2,138 Times in 1,197 Posts
^ Victory is missing the hanger bolt and stop piece ... but does have a ferrule in the housing stop.

Last edited by SurferRosa; 09-26-20 at 11:32 PM.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 09-26-20, 11:13 PM
  #49  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,328

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .....Raleigh "Super GP"...... ........................................

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Liked 419 Times in 269 Posts
branko_76 is offline  
Old 09-27-20, 12:48 AM
  #50  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,822 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
So, does each unique angle have an optimum cog size it was designed for?
I don't recall what the Campagnolo specs were, but as Triomphe goes, I'd caution that these specifications probably apply only to use on a Campagnolo 1010 dropout.

I found out years ago that the Triomphe stop (and probably the 980/990) is so poorly designed that some dropouts - which most take for granted are patterned after Campagnolo's 7-o'clock stop design - will not work as intended with them. Sometimes a Triomphe will hang perfectly vertical off a dropout, and sometimes they'll sit looking like a broken Simplex Prestige, angled backwards. In such cases, you'll usually find that the stop is jamming against the curve of the thick hanger and not actually resting on the stop intended to keep its position.

Sure, every other SunTour derailer will fit on that same dropout, as will good old Nuovo Record, but not Triomphe (or 980/990). I guess Campagnolo figured they could wrap just one more cog's worth at the expense of performance to sell these things off to manufacturers looking to pair their Cromor and 501 frames with an entry-level Campagnolo group - a group one that would allow for the widely-spaced freewheels (wide at the time) that most semi-pro stuff was fitted with.

I once filed a generic, Raleigh-branded forged dropout on a 1986 Raleigh Grand Prix to get it to fit nicely. I didn't file it much and don't entirely regret it. Nevertheless, in retrospect, I should have filed the stop on the Triomphe derailer instead; it was the misfit, not the frame.




Back when this thread was not 13 years old, I often recommended the Victory derailer over Triomphe here on BikeForums. I've come to rethink my position. That multi-position adjustable stop that @branko_76 shows in the photo above is all too often missing. It also has a penchant for cracking just like the pivot stop of Campagnolo's other piece of overhyped and under-engineered piece of bike jewelry, C-Record.

I'm a bit wiser now. Given the choice between Victory or Triomphe for use, I'd recommend a Triomphe under the following conditions: File it until it fits your dropout, then file it until it suits your chain wrap. Don't file it to the point that the stop breaks - but even then, you can probably drill and tap the body for a small Allen head screw that'll be just as serviceable if not more so. You're turning it, functionally, into Nuovo Record.

And better yet, Triomphes are cheap - or at least they should be. Last I looked they were usually a bit cheaper to Victory. But it's a crap shoot, because 50% of the sellers mix the two up. The remainder throw ludicrously high prices on them without even knowing WTF they are, but hey, "...it's Campagnolo! Let me **** your wallet, you moron!"

This still comes with the caveat that you want Triomphe or Victory because you really like the way it looks. Provided you are content with a gorgeous hunk of aluminum that doesn't shift that well on anything but a modern ramped freewheel or an old corncob, that's fine. But if you've got some real hills to climb, dig up a decent Shimano or Suntour derailer from the same era - otherwise you're riding the snob boat or have drug-enhanced legs like Floyd Landis. A caveat, of course, that the Suntour V-series and its ridiculously heavy spring rate need not apply for this job.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a sucker for aesthetics and live in a place where a 3-degree grade is a "hill." I've enjoyed owning both Triomphe and Victory groups and don't regret it, but I've done so accepting the flaws of their derailers. Most Nuovo Record owners have understood this since the 1970's; some have been less humble about it than others. Triomphe and Victory are just beautiful enough that they've endured a similar (if smaller) interest all these years, and both groups are just accessible enough to for C&V'ers who never thought they'd have access to Campy to have access to Campy. If you fall into the latter camp, follow the advice above and accept that the performance will - in many cases - be a tradeoff for appearance. Enjoy them for their beauty, and stay humble about their capabilities.

-Kurt
__________________








Last edited by cudak888; 09-27-20 at 09:17 AM.
cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.