Is it really a Cinelli? Help.
 

I recently received a bicycle that I bought of of Ebay. It was sold to me as a 1984 Cinelli. Wanting a taste of Italy, though not knowing much about Cinelli's I bought it.
It looks as though it has been painted, and I can't tell if the decals are new, or if they were masked over.
Here is what I know:
Current color is silver.
Columbus EL Tubing Decal
"Export" Decal on chainstays
brake cable braze-ons on tob tube
braze-on F. der.
Campy dropouts
Cinelli BB shell BREV 22829B-84
no imprints on frame or tubing except for BB shell and dropouts, only decals.
under the scratches, paint or primer looks greenish.

Any help would be so appreciated.
Wanting to know if it really is a Cinelli, if so, what model?
Thanks.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8182/3d7612sblp1.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1148/4e5f12sbzq1.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5885/429d12sbkl7.jpg

Probably is a Cinelli but not a 1984.

EL was not introduced until closer to 1988 / 1989 as far as I remember.

Do the Bottom Bracket and Steerer tube figure the same serial number??

Looks like Cinelli lugs, but has a different seat stays and method of attaching to seat tube than my 1984 does.

I looked at the completed auction. I don't think it is a Cinelli, but I am definitely not an expert, just an owner.

OFG, since you're an owner, does the SN add up as Cinelli?

I am certainly no expert either but it seems to me to use Cinelli lugs but was not made at the Cinelli factory. The serial numer is cast into the bottom backet shell, all of the Cinelli bikes I have seen also have an additional number stamped into the shell. From that stamped serial number, the bikes made in the eighties and later have a pretty obvious sizing and dating convention that this bike is lacking .

I can't tell from the pictures, but there is also a lack of chrome on this bike. That made be from a respray that also covers the stamped serial number. At the very least, the chainstay should be chrome. The decals also look like they could be vinyl and again that is something I have never seen before.

Please note I have not seen most of the Cinellis out there so please take my observations as only from limited experience. Better pictures would be very heplful.

Not to my knowledge, which is limited to one bike and looking at eBay auctions. My Cinelli is my summer bike, and I am not at its home now to check for certain.

I think it has four digit serial number, maybe something like 0501, but I'm old and can't say for sure. I'll check in a cou7ple of weeks when I see it again.

The danger signs for me are:

1) The seat cluster treatment
2) The quality of the work where the seat & chain stays attach to the rear drop outs
3) Lack of chrome
4) The decals
5) The geometry looks off, a bit too 'relaxed' upfront

Maybe a real Cinelli expert can chime in, this is the bike in question:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1980s-Cinelli-Fr...QQcmdZViewItem

That being said, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Cinelli didn't sell lugs and tubing to a lesser builder to have bikes branded somewhere as 'Cinelli Export'. I've seen plenty of bikes with Cinelli BBs and Cinelli looking lugs, even Japanese bikes.

As old as I am, I would bet the farm that waytoomanybikes is correct on the date, possibly even later. You may be able to date it by the bottom bracket shell. What's the width and threading, for starters?

If it truly is an EL frame, you might have gotten a decent ride, no matter who really made it.

You would have been better off (IMHO) buying this http://cgi.ebay.com/CINELLI-SUPER-CO...QQcmdZViewItem
in the same size, for twice the money. A for sure real Cinelli, ready to ride, and spare parts to boot. If it were my size I would've grabbed it.

Cinelli often sold bottom bracket shells and lugs to other builders, that was pretty common.

Cinelli would have cast the "cinelli" into the seat stay end and the "C" into the fork crown, in the pictures attached here, they look like decals.

I ma not home to do the search, but I ma positive that EL was not on the market in 1984 so that would be a "no"

Hmm, I have an '84 Cinelli I purchased new: typical Cinelli design including classic seat lug cluster, short Campagnolo dropouts, chrome lugs, 1/2 seat lug, fork crown and half forks; new Cinelli logo cast into fork crown, plastic logos in seat lug; update of classic Super Corsa design. As far as I know, that's all they made at the time. There was an earlier "Cinelli/Centurian, maybe 78 or so? Maybe its one of those with modern decals? But doesn't look like typical Cinelli design, the seat cluster was a trademark type feature.

Not a Cinelli......
 

CampyDropOut,

I've had a couple of 80s era Cinelli SCs and a Cinelli/Centurion over the years. I love the bikes and pay very close attention to details on the ones that pop up for sale. There is a HUGE array of different build features (braze-ons, logo'd vs non-logo'd fork crowns, bottom bracket features, derailleur cable routing, seatpost diameter, etc) on the early 80s Cinellis (after the Columbus take-over). However there are a few consistencies: fastback seatstay treatment on the SCs (which this one does not have, so it isn't a SC), Cinelli-pantographed, non-scalloped seatstay caps on the non-Cinelli, Cinellis like the Cinelli Centurions (this one has scalloped seat-stay caps w/a Cinelli decal on it!), a bridge between the chainstays (this one doesn't have a bridge), and a Cinelli-Logo'd seatstay bridge (I can't tell if this one is logo'd or not from the pictures, but it should be checked).

My guess is that this is a frame from an unknown builder that has been resprayed (which would explain the lack of chrome) and had Cinelli decals added (including the seatstay end caps) along with later Columbus decals that have the same basic shape as the SL stickers (the Cinellis would have been built w/either SL or SLX). From the pictures, the top tube pin stripe appears to be peeling off. The stripe on my SCs have flecked off, but have never peeled.

Cinelli regularly sold BB shells and lugs to other builders. The BB shell on this frame is the later "spoiler" design. I'm not sure when this design appeared, but I believe it was the early 90s which would place this frame in that time period.

My next step would be to see if there is a Cinelli logo pantographed into the seatstay bridge (where the rear brake bolts onto the frame).

Regardless it looks like a nice frame.

Cheers,

Texbike

Well, it looks as though it is back on eBay, being sold as a Cinelli, which it most likely is not.

Buyer beware:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cinelli-road-fra...QQcmdZViewItem

One more warning sign: I've never seen EL fork blades mounted to an 'old-style' Cinelli crown. EL blades are quite large, even in the non-OS variant, and most builders used the upraking aero style crown that was made for it(BMZ, Merckx, Tomassini). Some used the Nivacrom oversleeve crown(Coppi) and the cheap method was to tig-weld a crownless version (Casati).

Danny

Just a reminder to unsuspecting souls, because a decal says so, doesn't make it so.

IMO, this frameset IS a Cinelli, just not a Supercorsa. Being made from Columbus EL, it no doubt is a top line Cinelli model from that era.
Thruout the latter 80's and thru the 90's, Columbo owned Cinelli Cycles( part of Gruppo,Spa. which includes Columbus Tubing, Cinelli and until recently,3TTT) produced a whole series of models showcasing the latest in Columbus's tubing line and of course their own btm bkt shells and fitments .
All were fine bikes but none have had the staying power of the classic Supercorsa.However, were they were never meant to .
Supercorsa serves a separate & distinct purpose at Gruppo, tying the company and it's products to it's historic past.
Besides the accessory lines, Cinelli today exists to a large extent as an R&D and promotional arm of Columbus.
When new tubing products are developed, Columbus uses the Cinelli brand to exhibit and display to the industry how their latest and current line of tubesets can be utilised in manufacturing. Often you will find on current Cinelli models, tubesets, lugs, ancillaries and configuration combinations a full year before their appearance elsewhere.

Dammit.

Here's what leads me to believe it's not a Cinelli, the lack of serial number and the rear brake bridge, let alone the lack of the 'classic' Cinelli seat stay attachment.

This *may* be some unknown lesser model, but I doubt it, and I respect catherham's opinion greatly, but I will respectfully disagree on this bike.

Someone must have a late 80's Cinelli catalog.

As usual, I will apologize if proven wrong, and since I am so often wrong, I'm getting good at apologizing :D

went back over and re-read the entirety of the thread and must defer to OFG.
While I don't see any notable telltale incongruities with the seatcluster or brake bridge, the absence of a proper serial number stamping is completely inconsistant with Columbo era Cinelli's. with the wide availability of Cinelli lugs,btm-bkt shells, Columbus embossed fork crowns and even complete forks combined with this frame showing signs of repainting, it could be dang near anything. without a serial number coding, the one thing it *isn't* is a Cinelli.


best,
k

Worst... auction... ever

Maybe he never came back to see what people had to say. I don't see any of his posts in this thread since the original one....

edit of auction
 

I just got an email regarding postings on this thread since I have been subscribed to it since I purchased the bike. So here I am again. I edited the posting stating that the authenticity of the item was in question, as I am in no way trying to swindle anyone. Thank you for your help, if not in identifying the bike, at least saying what it isn't.
I learned a few things in the purchase of this bike:
1) You are better off buying a complete bike, if you are trying to save cash on a vintage road bike
2)Frame and Fork purchases can be hard to date/identify
3)I know now what I knew then, but I didn't know then what I know now.

Well, I do think its a good looking frame, I made a purchase of a complete bike (Colnago), and so don't need another project. I hope it sells, and the purchaser is happy with it. I will try and check back on postings more regularly.