norskagent

Hi, sorry for the blurry pic - can a bike type be identified by the lugwork? I have no clue what make of bike this is...thanks -

vpiuva

It can certainly narrow the field. Seat lug, bottom bracket, fork crown, and dropouts are really needed, too.

norskagent

tomorrow I'll post better, clearer pics...








stem and bars cinelli...dropouts, levers, calipers, headset, crankset, seatpost, hubs, all campy.
front der. campy, rear nuevo campy...but I can't i.d. the frame yet -

norskagent

another blurry pic, again, sorry...my digi camera won't focus on the right bits...

vjp

My very first feeling is that it is an early Ritchey, mainly from the seat cluster, however the rear dropout looks like it is stamped and it doesn't seem to fit with the apparent quality of the rest of the bike.

Where did you find it?

vjp

unworthy1

It's SOMEbody's very good work, whether it's Ritchey I can't say, but it appears the clamp-bolt is inserted from the LEFT, which is very unusual. I believe those are Campy vertical dropouts, even though "stamped" they are high-quality. All this is based on those really unclear photos, so I may be way off...

vjp

I googled some early Ritchey road frame pics and they look different but the posters pics seem so familiar, Johnson, Mooney,Ritchey...??? Late 70's early 80's American Custom I would think, the red Bullseye pulleys scream that era.

What is the date code on the rear derailleur?

vjp

norskagent

sorry for the blurry pics, I can't seem to take good closeups w/ my digi cam. Here are some more pics, what else should I photogragh, and where on the rear derailleur is the date code? I picked the bike up off craigslist, for $175, the seller also gave me a spare wheelset, aspin rims w/ campy hubs. The wheels on the bike are some kind of belgium rims w/ campy record. Thanks!

JunkYardBike

Does your camera have a macro setting? It's usually symbolized by a flower. Use the macro setting to take closeup shots. Also, try taking the photos in daylight (not direct sun, but in the shade on a sunny day). Not that your photos aren't adequate. And sorry I can't offer any help on the id.

unworthy1

These pics are a bit better, it's also hard with a black frame, but a shot showing just how the seatstays attach would help, and a clear one of the forkcrown. That seatstay treatment is ALMOST like that used on the Raleigh Pro, and the Brits have a name for it, but it slips my mind, just now. I'd suggest trying a psot to the CR list, it might even be the work of one of those who read/post there regularly. Heckuva great deal for $175!!

norskagent

I'm sorry, CR list? I'm still a nooob that happened upon a nice vintage lightweight!
Also, I looked for some kind of date code on the rear der., didn't see any numbers...any other components to look at? It has campy seatpost, brakes, pedals, front der., not sure about bottom bracket yet.

CampyGuy

The crankset might have a date code, if it doesn't, it's an older one.
The CR list is an e-mail list called Classic Rendezvous.
https://www.phred.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous

unworthy1

OK, the CR list is the message board at www.classicrendezvous.com, you have to subscribe and follow the rules about timeline and signoff (Dale the moderator is very particular about those) and I'd suggest selecting the "digest" option unless you like TONS of email...but maybe you don't need to go there, just yet.
The Campy RD will generally say "patent XX" on the top near the cable housing, that XX is the date.
Measure the width of the BB shell, it will either be 68 or 70 mm wide (I'm betting on 68).
Somebody is bound to recognize that rear cluster and the single round lug hole, it's so distinctive.

distincthead

deleted

unworthy1

Could be, that seat cluster sure has the finesse of an early Ritchey, but I have yet to see a pic of one that looks just like this. Could also be a Peter Johnson, maybe, he did some really fine work around the same period, but again haven't seen one with this single "O" cutout. For poetic reasons, it seems like a Mooney should have a "full moon lug" like this....

norskagent

"The Campy RD will generally say "patent XX" "

Ah ha. patent 79. Is there a photo database somewhere of framebuilder's lugs?

norskagent

one more.

unworthy1

No "one stop shop" for that kind of image library, but a couple of us have already trolled the usual places to look for a match, and no luck yet. I go the the www.wooljersey.com/gallery site and plug in a builder's name to the search function...but you need some names to begin with. Or the search.bikelist.org will connect you to all the list (including the CR list) archives of many bikelist message boards, but again you can do an awful lot of blind searching unless you know what you're looking for, and hit a lot of dead links. I'm going to hijack your last image and post a query on the CR list to see if we strike paydirt, hope that's OK with you...standby, I'll post the results if/when I get some.

norskagent

fine with me! oh and I figured out the macro setting - I was looking for it in the menu options, turns out it was on a toggle button on top of the camera.

norskagent

one more one more.

unworthy1

Norskagent: are you OK with my posting all your other pics on a photobucket site?
There's been a little flurry of interest from Brian Bayliss and others, but they'd like to see more pics and also know where the bike came from: geography might help ID it. Brian's first guess was "Jim Redcay" (eastern USA builder, including PA as one of the Ross Signature builders) but he says that's just his first impression...not bad at all, if it turns out to be correct!

norskagent

yea, post'em. I bought the bike locally here in Raleigh, it was the seller's husband's brother, who used to race, bike. Don't know where he was from. Meanwhile the campy seatpost is stuck.

skinny

I believe that is a Campag vertical rear dropout, and it is cast, not stamped.

skinny

Ritchey frames had an ovalized downtube at the bottom bracket. Easy enough to check for.

norskagent

not ritchey then. I got the seatpost to turn, I stuck the beat up avocet saddle in beween a fork of a tree, and twisted the bike. Will get it out later.