mike alanko

Ok folks. As most of you replying to my posts in the past few days know I'm trying to figure out the production date on my Legnano Gran Premio. To this end, I'd like to open a discussion about what parts were attached to what bikes in what years, as I think I have either an anomaly or a re-fitted bike.

I keep seeing high flange hubs on bikes that look like mine but I have low flange. I keep seeing centerpull brakes, but I have sidepulls. (Universal "Extra").

S/N - EP6024

1960??

Help!

T-Mar

The sidepull brakes indicate pre-1968. The hubs on GPs typically used Campagnolo hardware, so remove the locknuts and check for a two digit year code on the back. That is of course, assuming that they are original. 1960 sounds about right. Nice bicycle. I've owned two of this vintage.

mike alanko

Thanks T-Mar next time I service the bearings!

dbakl

Small flange and large flange varied according to personal preference and fashion. Small were popular in the 50s, large in the later 60s and 70s, returning to small in the late 70s-80s and ever since. Same with centerpull and sidepull brakes, although I suspect both were whatever someone chose to throw on as they were building the bikes. Sometimes you could request variations when purchasing at the retail end, or dealers would spec their preferences when they ordered. Personally, I like high flange, though I admit I rode small flange in the 70s when high flange were popular just to be different.

John E

When I bought a used set of wheels with low-flange Campag. Record hubs in 1973, my friends coveted them rabidly, because the high-flange craze was just peaking.

dbaki is right about fashions with brakesets and hubsets. I have a mid-1950s photo of a Capo Sieger with low-flange hubs and sidepulls, but by 1959 the company had switched to high-flanges and centerpulls.

mike alanko

I can't help but admit to realizing I've been the victim of fashionability with this bike too. The radial laced front wheel, the green tires... Both very 'last year'. Now if I can just find some Fiamme Red Labels!

Can anyone tell me more about my serial number though?

T-Mar

In the case of Legnano, the original brake style is defined by the frame, at least the models with the seat post binder bolt under the seat lug. Due to this location, a standard cable housing stop hanger for center-brakes could not be employed. Legnano brazed a single, threaded boss, similar to that for a water bottle, to the back of the seat lug to accept the hanger. The presence or lack of this boss defines whether the bicycle was originally equipped for side-pull brakes (no boss) or center-pull brakes (boss present).

I goofed in my original post. Original side-pull brakes make the bicycle no later than 1961, when the Universal 61 center-pull came out and Legnano incorporated the hanger boss on the GP. Got my Universal models mixed up.

coelcanth

hi mike,
i've also been researching things around this era to help date and build some simliar italian bikes..
unfortunately i don't know anything about legnano serial numbers (my legnano roma olimpiade is stamped '268' on the bb shell, i suspect it to be from around 1961 as it has the mod. 61 boss)

check the drive side dropout to see if you have the earlier campy variation with boss and spring hole for early campy rear derailleur model. see this japanese site for some pics: https://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~campa/newpage12.htm

what kind of hubs are on the bike ? the skewers look to be campy so i suspect that is the make.. their one piece alloy hubs were introduced in 1960.. no record on the hub barrels indicates pre '63 (these are pretty rare in low-flange model !)

the one thing that i'd say almost definitely dates your bike to about 1960 is the gran sport front derailleur.. it's hard to tell from the pic but it looks like the version with a straight tail on the 'c' in the campagnolo world logo.. i've only seen this logo on these last version g.s. front derailleurs, the very earliest record front derailleurs, and early record 'no record' hubs..

what kindof rear mech. is on the bike ? if it's a gran sport with no barrel adjuster, it would seem these parts are original and date the bike early 60s.. i can't imagine someone replacing 50s gran sport parts with their 60s equivalents, especially when campy had just introduced their new design front derailleur..

mike alanko

Thanks Coelcanth, I'll take some pics in the morning. I remeber looking at campyonly.com and thinking my parts were '58s...

The hubs are campy, low flange, stamped Legnano. I believe there is a spring hole in the dropout, yes.

The rear derailleur had a barrel adjuster at one point but it's gone now. The threads are there though. It is a Gran Sport.

T-Mar

If the hubs are stamped Legnano they are almost certainly original. In which case, the date on the back of the locknuts are likely no more than one year off. If you REALLY want to know the vintage, don't wait untiul the next service. Do it NOW! It's a simple job. And just to be sure, check the dates on all four locknuts. One might be a red herring and if so, Murphy's Law says that will be the one you pick.

basiccloud

I hit on your post while trying to find out more information about my own Gran Premio, which I am in the process of resuscitating right now. Mine is like the dirty doppelganger of yours. My feeling is that the components on my bike are "correct," and yours match, aside from wheels (mine has high-flange Record hubs--branded "Legnano"--laced to Fiamme blue label tubulars). Additionally, I have (and you probably do, too) Ambrosio bars (branded "Legnano") and stem; Magistroni cranks (arms marked "Legnano" and on the back of the arm stamped "61"), rings, and (maybe?) headset. Here's a picture of mine, fresh from the trash heap. Chrome and components are cleaning up nicely, though! If you have any updated photos I'd love to see them.