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Market for Paramount (and maybe other vintage frames) softening?

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Market for Paramount (and maybe other vintage frames) softening?

Old 05-26-07, 10:40 PM
  #1  
frank121
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Market for Paramount (and maybe other vintage frames) softening?

I had a 58cm new 1987 vintage Schwinn Paramount on eBay this week and got no bids when it closed tonight. Started it at $375, had 1800+ hits and, more importantly, 126 watchers when it closed. I know if I could find a Paramount in my size in this condition and price I would be a buyer. I have noticed prices down somewhat on Paramounts and other older vintage lugged steel frames. Anyone else?
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Old 05-26-07, 11:25 PM
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i have a 1985 "P" that has been chromed (23") campi/cinelly through-out. lbs (1993) stated that the replacement value was $2500.00, i also have a letter from the "P" company in illinoise verifying authenticity.
eBay is a gift to some, a yard sell to others.
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Old 05-27-07, 12:17 AM
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i tried to sell a Rally RD on ebay and started it at $75 (min I would take) a whole bunch of watchers and not a bid, usually these sell for $100 easy, prices on all components seems to be down lately.
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Old 05-27-07, 01:22 AM
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some thoughts on ebay-

sometimes an item that sells well once draws others and there is no bid war on the second item, so the next time it goes cheap. Other times, the luck of the draw, is someone or better two, looking for your wares when you are offering them?
Timing seems to be everything, presentation helps also, but sometimes not. Some well presented items just are too well hyped, it all depends, my personal view is to end on a Sunday evening later, and depending on the width of the market, not at a holiday weekend, people are away, not everyone snipes, an example would be not to sell French jewels during Golden week in Japan, everyone is gone, or busy.

ebay is also in a bit of a transition I think, the cloaked bidders, at least for me, push it to snipe or forget it, too easy for a shill bid scheme to happen. Also, for those aware, the Post Office in the US, has raised rates, so size dependent items are a bigger risk now, as the rate structure is not fully understood, my son got two magazines, (back issues), not big mags either, $7.00 to send! Priority, no special delivery confirm, or insurance.

High initial starting prices seem to dampen things, an econ major should do a study, but with the other stuff in play right now, who knows... I think there is some softening, as a number of sellers have higher starting bids now, perhaps the cost of placing a reserve has gone up? Or, it is the easiest way to insure a base amount is acheived?

Finally, high fuel prices, folk just do not feel great about spending on "extras" when it is almost double the price to fill it up than it was in recent memory, if attitude and real money, folk just do not feel flush. Might be the Alternate Minimum Tax... ouch. I forgot food has been escalating at an alarming rate in the past 6 months or so...they do not see me at Starbucks as often lately either. The Core rate if inflation is not so bad, but fuel and food are not part of it... huh? Six months from now they might be saying "the recession started in May of '07..."
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Old 05-27-07, 08:02 AM
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Ebay is weird a lot of the time. A previous customer of mine came back and bought a complete fixed gear conversion I built. He sold the one he built on Ebay that was way too small for him. He bought that frame, fork, headset, bb, seatpost, bars, and stem from me for $40. He added a wheelset that was $120 and some cranks ($?). That auction ended for $522!!! The frame wasn't anything special either, a lugged Nashbar made of basic straight gauge steel.
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Old 05-27-07, 09:04 AM
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I got a set of Lyotard pedals for $1, mainly because I was the only one that wanted them at the time. You never know with Ebay, definitely it is the luck of the draw.

I saw the ad and it is a beautiful frame. A bit too small for me, sadly.

My only suggestion would be to start with a lower price, put a reserve on it and most importantly, spend a few extra dollars for the Picture Pack so you can have larger, more detailed photos of all parts of the frame. I do that on all my listings and I think it pays off.

Wait a few weeks and try again, maybe you will get lucky and have two newbies in a bidding war.
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Old 05-29-07, 01:35 PM
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I wish it would've been soft when I picked up my '72 P a couple of months ago! I spent $1,500 for it(well worth it) ....because it was my dream bike in my size and my favorite Schwinn color

Some of the more "common" sizes aren't getting the prices that they were.....like the previous posters have stated....it's all about timing. The right item at the right time with the right buyer = BINGO!
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Old 05-29-07, 01:58 PM
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use photobucket for free pictures.
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Old 05-29-07, 01:58 PM
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What I have noticed is tha Paramount sellers in particular are putting up really average listings and high starting prices. No offense to the OP. The seller's seem to think that the bikes sell themselves. There are many listings I see with average pictures and two line desriptions. Ebay, in my experience requires many detailed photos and thorough descriptions to get the top price. This is especially ture for an item that you are hopin gto get a lot of money for. Whenever I sell something I always try to put myself in the place as the buyer and think "What would motivate me to buy this item?" All markets are cyclical(no pun intended ) but it is up to the seller to try and put their product in the best possible light. Many just are not doing that.
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Old 05-29-07, 02:31 PM
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fender1, I totally agree. Lots of detailed pictures, a complete list of all the components, and a thorough (and truthful) description of the condition of the bike will go a long way.

Most listings have one or two photos that are out of focus and have a cluttered background, and many descriptions don't even give the size of the frame. Sheesh.
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Old 05-29-07, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fender1
What I have noticed is tha Paramount sellers in particular are putting up really average listings and high starting prices. No offense to the OP. The seller's seem to think that the bikes sell themselves. There are many listings I see with average pictures and two line desriptions.
+2. That guy in NY a couple months ago that had several Paramounts for auction. The opening bids were set low but the photos and descriptions were meager, AND he wouldn't ship (I tried). The whole bunch went for between $500 and $700 each, iirc. Arrgh!

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Old 05-29-07, 06:14 PM
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This Paramount P10 went for $700, perhaps because it looks like it was miscategorized.
Lots of nice photos.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCHWINN-PARAMOUN...QQcmdZViewItem

Same seller had a Superior that I'm still bummed I didn't bid on. Went for $150:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCHWINN-SUPERIOR...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old 05-29-07, 06:45 PM
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No offense, but 87 doesn't really seem that old.
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Old 05-29-07, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by leftthread
This Paramount P10 went for $700, perhaps because it looks like it was miscategorized.
Lots of nice photos.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCHWINN-PARAMOUN...QQcmdZViewItem

Same seller had a Superior that I'm still bummed I didn't bid on. Went for $150:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCHWINN-SUPERIOR...QQcmdZViewItem
The shipping, in my opinion posed a real hurdle for this seller. $135 to ship a bike is very high. It keeps people from bidding or at least me! I too looked at both of these auctions and immediately moved on at $135 to ship a bike. I understand that the time and materials to ship are bike properly can be substatial but it should not be an excessive profit center for the seller.
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Old 05-29-07, 07:38 PM
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I have observed a softening in the market for lesser Schwinns. For example, I have not seen another 1960 Continental go for anywhere near $800. I have likewise not seen any more $7K(!) early 1960s Peugeot PX-10 deals.

It's all just as well with me -- I have what I want, and I want what I have.
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Old 05-29-07, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by fender1
The shipping, in my opinion posed a real hurdle for this seller. $135 to ship a bike is very high. It keeps people from bidding or at least me! I too looked at both of these auctions and immediately moved on at $135 to ship a bike. I understand that the time and materials to ship are bike properly can be substatial but it should not be an excessive profit center for the seller.
Yes, $135 for shipping was excessive! Forgot that; for me it would have been a "local" pick-up. Usually filter for something close enough to drive to.
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Old 05-29-07, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclotoine
i tried to sell a Rally RD on ebay and started it at $75 (min I would take) a whole bunch of watchers and not a bid...
Maybe the watchers wanted to know what theirs was "worth"!

But if you've still got it, I gladly accept Campy.
That would be a nice bit for Mrs East Hill's Raleigh mixte.

Any chance you have a T.A. triple you don't need?

Originally Posted by cyclotoine
prices on all components seems to be down lately.
That's probably a good thing for some of us C&V "junkies"!
As stated above in this thread, people are pouring way more money into their gas tanks/refridgerators these days.
We buy MILK in 6-pacs (of GALLON jugs!) It's way cheaper to buy pairs of gallon jugs.
 
Old 05-30-07, 08:19 AM
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I noticed that some E-Bay sellers seem to get above average prices for their bikes. What those sellers have in common is:

- their feedback shows that they have recently sold a lot of bikes and bike stuff to happy customers

- they post lots of detailed, sharp closeup photos of their bikes

- their ads are very detailed, down to the brand and age of the bar tape and the inner tubes

- they have a flat rate for boxing and shipping, or a "cap" on the cost, such as "$50 to the lower 48 states".

I was wondering HOW one seller could afford to box and ship a bike from Florida to Texas for that price. He was using DHL, which had a "bulk" contract with his employer. There was a DHL sticker that showed the "actual" price of shipping from his employer in Florida to a bike shop in Houston (which was a regular DHL delivery stop) was under $30. If he had shipped that bike from his own home directly to my home, the cost probably would have been triple.

I have seen nice bikes on E-Bay being sold by a guy who has never sold a bike before. Two blurry photos. The details of the bike, including size, are vague. The cost of boxing and shipping is "whatever my bike shop charges", or is listed as $100 or $150. Guess how many serious bids that bike gets?

It also helps when a bike is somewhat of a "cult" item. The Schwinn Paramounts from around 1958 to 1978 are very attractive to collectors, especially if they are in excellent condition, with all of the original components.

The Schwinn Paramounts from after 1980 have never had that same attraction to collectors, and after Schwinn started using the Paramount name on bikes made in Asia...well, a very nice Panasonic is not gonna sell for a ton of money, even with a "Paramount" sticker on it.
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Old 05-30-07, 09:38 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Dr.Deltron

But if you've still got it, I gladly accept Campy.
That would be a nice bit for Mrs East Hill's Raleigh mixte.

Any chance you have a T.A. triple you don't need?
Oh yes, that would be nice for the mixte! I can even afford it after working all this overtime

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Old 05-30-07, 11:04 AM
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Well...... I've got a spare TA triple. BUT....... the teeth are kind of spikey and the rings are disassembled and in a pile. All the bits appear to be there, though. For East Hill, I'd donate it.......
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Old 05-30-07, 11:17 AM
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Thanks bigbossman! Still, let me know what I owe you for it if it winds up going to Dr. D's.

On a related note, it's a good thing I'm not still looking for a red mixte, eh cobber?

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