Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Show Us Your 650B Conversions

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Show Us Your 650B Conversions

Old 05-23-17, 12:54 AM
  #426  
Senior Member
 
Dfrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,998

Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione

Liked 478 Times in 263 Posts
[MENTION=131041]mountaindave[/MENTION],
Yes, they're Sachs New Success 8-spd Ergo brifters with a medium cage New Success RD. FD is a Campy Racing T, but any FD works with Ergo shifters, and the Campy FD seem to shift just a tiny bit better. Same combination on my Miyata 912, and I've used it on several predecessors. The Sachs brifters use the same parts as Campy to rebuild, and all I've ever needed in about 30,000 miles was a few g-springs. I've got lots of spare Sachs RD's, but haven't had one wear out yet. [MENTION=111144]Andy_K[/MENTION] just sent me a link to an article that suggests that the Sachs engineers actually developed Ergo shifters, and Campy did the manufacturing. Who knows if it's true, but it was fun reading for a Sachs-o-Phile.
[MENTION=332373]bwilli88[/MENTION],
The rack is a Tubus Fly with stainless tubes. I've got several, plus an older and similar Tubus Luna. They're light, very stiff and give great support for the large Vaude bag that attaches to that little clip on the seatpost. That way, the weight of bag is not hanging directly from that clip. And they work well with panniers, which I prefer to hang as far forward as possible. It's too narrow for a rack-top bag, but I don't use those these days.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...&category=3538

Thanks, Andy, for the Sachs link and the compliment. Yeah, I'm liking those cranks very much. I've heard that they were originally spec'd on Specialized Sequoia like yours. Yes, the 126mm BB can be a pain to find, but I had an SKF coming to me already and was able to switch the order to that length, with a spacer to create the necessary asymmetry. The Q-Factor came out to 147mm, which is quite narrow these days.
Dfrost is offline  
Old 05-23-17, 01:06 AM
  #427  
Senior Member
 
Dfrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,998

Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione

Liked 478 Times in 263 Posts
PS. [MENTION=131041]mountaindave[/MENTION],
My inspiration for this Marinoni conversion was preparation for the 2017 Cino Heroica, following [MENTION=170517]rccardr[/MENTION]'s Pellizoli example with different wheels for different events. Now I hear there may not be an "official" CH, but keep me in mind if there's an unofficial version.
Dfrost is offline  
Old 05-23-17, 07:21 AM
  #428  
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,750

Bikes: It's complicated.

Liked 6,070 Times in 2,366 Posts
Originally Posted by nlerner
Given the SuperCourses were spec'd for 27" wheels, you can usually fit quite a wide 700c tire on them. I don't quite see the point of going 650B (and I'd also worry about BB height issues).
That's what I'd do if you don't want to torch up the frame. My Raleigh Grand Sports fits 700c x 35's with fenders, I could go even wider if I rode it fenderless.

The whole point of going 650b on a vintage frame is it enables a wider tire. If you can get a wider tire using 700c, wheels are much easier to find, and you probably already have a set.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 05-23-17, 09:28 AM
  #429  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Port Townsend, WA
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
1976 Motobecane Grand Jubile my father bought new...

https://flic.kr/p/AFdMve
https://flic.kr/p/uB5q3u

This bike taught me a lot
NickFavicchio is offline  
Old 05-23-17, 10:04 AM
  #430  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,801

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Liked 2,740 Times in 1,590 Posts
Originally Posted by gugie
That's what I'd do if you don't want to torch up the frame. My Raleigh Grand Sports fits 700c x 35's with fenders, I could go even wider if I rode it fenderless.

The whole point of going 650b on a vintage frame is it enables a wider tire. If you can get a wider tire using 700c, wheels are much easier to find, and you probably already have a set.
Thanks for the tips, guys. I think I'll do this. It looks like I'll have lots of room for wide tires going from 27" to 700c, and I want fenders, but that shouldn't be a big problem. Getting brakes to fit might be a challenge, but probably not a big one.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is online now  
Old 05-23-17, 10:52 AM
  #431  
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,750

Bikes: It's complicated.

Liked 6,070 Times in 2,366 Posts
Originally Posted by NickFavicchio
1976 Motobecane Grand Jubile my father bought new...

https://flic.kr/p/AFdMve
https://flic.kr/p/uB5q3u

This bike taught me a lot
Those Motobacon Grand Jubilee/Record frames fit 650b x 42's with fenders. The chainstays are shorter than the early 70's Raleighs, but they make up for it with dented chainstays - gives more room for the tires. Also, the chainstay bridge is tighter to the bottom bracket, allowing just enough room to get the tire out, even with horizontal dropouts.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 05-23-17, 11:19 AM
  #432  
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,750

Bikes: It's complicated.

Liked 6,070 Times in 2,366 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider
Thanks for the tips, guys. I think I'll do this. It looks like I'll have lots of room for wide tires going from 27" to 700c, and I want fenders, but that shouldn't be a big problem. Getting brakes to fit might be a challenge, but probably not a big one.
MAFAC 2000s work on my Grand Sports & Honjo 50mm wide fenders. It looks to me that you can use a bit narrower brake and still play nice with those fenders. You can look up the distance between the posts and compare to one's you're considering, but to play it safe, I'd use a centerpull brake. The well regarded and great value Tektro 559's might pinch a fender. I'm assuming that the brake bridge to dropout distance is the same. I can measure mine to compare to your frame, if you want.

If want to use 35mm tires, VO has a nice 45mm wide fender for 700c

You probably already have this link, but it gives dimensions for a lot of different centerpull brakes. Our own [MENTION=45088]nlerner[/MENTION] contributed to it!
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 05-23-17, 11:43 AM
  #433  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,801

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Liked 2,740 Times in 1,590 Posts
[MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION], I'm using MAFAC Racer brakes now. On the rear, the pads are pointed down to reach the rim. This means I have to watch it because as the pads wear, they'll get closer to rubbing the tire. This isn't the worst thing, but it will be worse with a smaller rim. I could see what happens if I go back to a Weinmann of the type that came on the bike. That might fit. It did fit on my 1975 Gran Sport when I swapped in tubular wheels.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is online now  
Old 05-23-17, 12:01 PM
  #434  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts


1979 Fuji Royale, Originally had 27 inch wheels so plenty of room for 650bx42c PariMotos.

Edit: Please don't mind the gravel dust on the tires.

Last edited by Dustintendo; 05-23-17 at 12:06 PM. Reason: gravel dust
Dustintendo is offline  
Old 05-23-17, 06:34 PM
  #435  
tantum vehi
 
mountaindave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 4,453

Bikes: More than I care to admit

Liked 1,003 Times in 498 Posts
With such a nicely composed picture, we can excuse the gravel dust... oh wait, gravel dust is supposed to be on the tires!
mountaindave is offline  
Old 05-24-17, 09:53 PM
  #436  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Port Townsend, WA
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Another nice bit with the old Motobecanes is that they often came with 55mm offset forks. This and a 74° ht angle means 39mm of trail with 650b x 40mm tires.

So low trail without any need to rerake.

Downside is Swiss bb (tap it English!), French thread fork and 22.0 stem. Otherwise, Motobecanes are often, perhaps more often then Peugeot or Gitane, very nicely put together and very nicely painted.

Depends heavily on the skill of the French dude who stuck it all together a few decades ago.
NickFavicchio is offline  
Old 05-24-17, 10:00 PM
  #437  
Senior Member
 
Unkle Rico's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: dEnVeR
Posts: 1,682

Bikes: CENTURION / LOOK / Bianchi

Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Where are you guys getting your wheelsets from out of curiosity? Seems kinda hard to track a set down that doesn't cost $400+
Unkle Rico is offline  
Old 05-24-17, 11:00 PM
  #438  
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,750

Bikes: It's complicated.

Liked 6,070 Times in 2,366 Posts
Originally Posted by NickFavicchio
Another nice bit with the old Motobecanes is that they often came with 55mm offset forks. This and a 74° ht angle means 39mm of trail with 650b x 40mm tires.

So low trail without any need to rerake.

Downside is Swiss bb (tap it English!), French thread fork and 22.0 stem. Otherwise, Motobecanes are often, perhaps more often then Peugeot or Gitane, very nicely put together and very nicely painted.

Depends heavily on the skill of the French dude who stuck it all together a few decades ago.
Yeah, but the Motobacons had the best French dudes! Consistent quality.

And Swiss/French threaded and sized modern parts are much easier to find nowadays.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 05-24-17, 11:02 PM
  #439  
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,750

Bikes: It's complicated.

Liked 6,070 Times in 2,366 Posts
Originally Posted by Unkle Rico
Where are you guys getting your wheelsets from out of curiosity? Seems kinda hard to track a set down that doesn't cost $400+
Now and then one can find an inexpensive wheelset. I'm more of a quality guy, so I roll my own. If you're interested in an inexpensive set and can't find any, PM me.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 05-25-17, 12:02 AM
  #440  
tantum vehi
 
mountaindave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 4,453

Bikes: More than I care to admit

Liked 1,003 Times in 498 Posts
Originally Posted by gugie
Yeah, but the Motobacons had the best French dudes! Consistent quality.

And Swiss/French threaded and sized modern parts are much easier to find nowadays.
Can be tricky to find a sealed BB long enough for a Sugino AT crankset, if one exists. Otherwise you're scouring ebay for long axles. But don't get me wrong, I love me some French goodness!
mountaindave is offline  
Old 05-25-17, 01:04 AM
  #441  
Senior Member
 
Dfrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,998

Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione

Liked 478 Times in 263 Posts
Originally Posted by mountaindave
Can be tricky to find a sealed BB long enough for a Sugino AT crankset, if one exists. Otherwise you're scouring ebay for long axles. But don't get me wrong, I love me some French goodness!
A new 126mm SKF, plus a 2.5mm DS spacer, works well with the AT crank I just put on the Marinoni, admittedly for a price. And I just saw some new, still in the box, 127.5mm Shimano UN-55's in the mechanics' BB drawer at the non-profit where I volunteer. So they ARE out there.
Dfrost is offline  
Old 05-25-17, 08:24 AM
  #442  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,801

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Liked 2,740 Times in 1,590 Posts
[MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION], what rim do you like? I've browsed the web for 650b rims and wheels, and they're marketed as MTB 27.5" with 135mm OLD axles.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is online now  
Old 05-25-17, 08:32 AM
  #443  
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,750

Bikes: It's complicated.

Liked 6,070 Times in 2,366 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider
[MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION], what rim do you like? I've browsed the web for 650b rims and wheels, and they're marketed as MTB 27.5" with 135mm OLD axles.
For a good value, either SOMA Weymouths or VO Diagonales, whichever is cheapest at the time.

I'd like to try the new Pacenti 650b rims, heard good things about them, but haven't built a set.

Velocity Dyads build extremely strong wheels.

You'll hear stories of breakage on all rims, so YMMV.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 05-25-17, 11:36 AM
  #444  
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,931

Bikes: Yes

Liked 4,229 Times in 1,561 Posts
Thanks to a reminder from [MENTION=432729]nashvillebill[/MENTION] that diy drop bolts are a thing, I got my 650B wheels on the Sequoia and tried it out this morning.



I hacked together the drop bolt from a couple of inserts from old Crank Brothers cleats, three old cartridge bearings from Crank Brothers pedals and pair of hemispherical washers from old V-brake pads. Who needs to spend $2.37 at the hardware store when you've kept old bits and pieces like a packrat?





I'll probably still go with offset brake pad holders in the long term to get the extra fender space. This only left about 12mm. The tire clearance was good in the back, but the fork is going to limit me to 38mm on this bike.



(It's not quite as bad as this picture makes it seem, but there are only a few millimeters on either side.)

After one ride, I'm pretty sure I like the 650B ride on this bike better than that with the same wheels and tires on the Centurion. That's not a huge surprise given how much I like this bike. I'm not 100% convinced that I prefer the ride of this bike on pavement with 650x38s to the ride of this bike with 700x32s. It's definitely a cushier ride, but on pavement the 700x32s were cushy enough. On gravel or chipseal, the story could be different. I'll need to check that out.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is online now  
Old 05-25-17, 12:20 PM
  #445  
Senior Member
 
Dfrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,998

Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione

Liked 478 Times in 263 Posts
[MENTION=111144]Andy_K[/MENTION], your "drop bolt assembly" is another priceless gem of ingenuity.

I also share your question about the relative improvement of 650x38's versus 700x32's, and might temporarily switch back to the latter just to check my senses. But I can say that those 38's at 50/55 psi sure made a noticeable comfort difference on chipseal, and there's a confidence boost with all the grooves/cracks with the concrete slabs found all over Seattle.

[MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION], [MENTION=152773]noglider[/MENTION]. Tom, I used the new Pacenti Brevet rims in my Marinoni 650B conversion shown a few posts back and really like them. They built up easily and true, love the polished finish and shape (both much like H+Sons tb14's, only noticeably lighter at 435gm). My only comment is that the spoke holes were in line, but angled for the left/right spokes. So they build like all modern rims, but took some close examination to confirm. The haven't required any touch ups in 370 miles.

Last edited by Dfrost; 05-25-17 at 12:23 PM.
Dfrost is offline  
Old 05-25-17, 12:33 PM
  #446  
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,931

Bikes: Yes

Liked 4,229 Times in 1,561 Posts
Originally Posted by Dfrost
I also share your question about the relative improvement of 650x38's versus 700x32's, and might temporarily switch back to the latter just to check my senses. But I can say that those 38's at 50/55 psi sure made a noticeable comfort difference on chipseal, and there's a confidence boost with all the grooves/cracks with the concrete slabs found all over Seattle.
One of the nice things about my copious suburban garage space is that I can justify keeping a dedicated chip seal/mixed surface bike. I'll play around with the tire pressure and see what I think. If I decide to switch this bike back to 700c I'll probably try these wheels and tires on my Trek 614, which has nearly identical geometry to this bike and might even have room for 42s. Or maybe I'll break down and get the Grand Jubilee that [MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION] is confident I'm eventually going to buy from him.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is online now  
Old 05-25-17, 12:36 PM
  #447  
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,750

Bikes: It's complicated.

Liked 6,070 Times in 2,366 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_K
One of the nice things about my copious suburban garage space is that I can justify keeping a dedicated chip seal/mixed surface bike. I'll play around with the tire pressure and see what I think. If I decide to switch this bike back to 700c I'll probably try these wheels and tires on my Trek 614, which has nearly identical geometry to this bike and might even have room for 42s. Or maybe I'll break down and get the Grand Jubilee that [MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION] is confident I'm eventually going to buy from him.
I'm so confident that I ordered up some new decals. MOTOBACON and GRAND ANDY.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 05-25-17, 08:50 PM
  #448  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Port Townsend, WA
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
A23 is my favorite rim option. Narrow brake track but light and strong and a good fit for the 650b tires I like. And in the J&B catalog so orderable at the local bike store.
NickFavicchio is offline  
Old 05-26-17, 12:27 PM
  #449  
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,931

Bikes: Yes

Liked 4,229 Times in 1,561 Posts
Originally Posted by NickFavicchio
A23 is my favorite rim option. Narrow brake track but light and strong and a good fit for the 650b tires I like. And in the J&B catalog so orderable at the local bike store.
As of last night I've got A23 rims on four bikes -- the 650B's on the Sequoia above, a set of 700C A23/Origin8's on each of my Pinarellos and a set of 700C A23/Ultegras now on the Centurion that briefly had the 650Bs. It's a nice rim in either size. For 700C I prefer the DT Swiss R460 because it has similar weight and ride characteristics but is about half the cost.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is online now  
Old 05-26-17, 12:33 PM
  #450  
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,931

Bikes: Yes

Liked 4,229 Times in 1,561 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_K
After one ride, I'm pretty sure I like the 650B ride on this bike better than that with the same wheels and tires on the Centurion. That's not a huge surprise given how much I like this bike. I'm not 100% convinced that I prefer the ride of this bike on pavement with 650x38s to the ride of this bike with 700x32s. It's definitely a cushier ride, but on pavement the 700x32s were cushy enough. On gravel or chipseal, the story could be different. I'll need to check that out.
Updating my ride impressions, I put more air in the tires last night and that helped a lot. When I had these wheels and tires on the Centurion I felt like it was rebounding too much off of irregularities in the road surface (cracks, raised or lowered manhole covers, etc.), like the front wheel would roll over something and the bike would buck when the back wheel hit it. I fixed that by lowering the pressure and left it there when I moved the wheels over to the Sequoia and it just felt too squishy, like sitting on an exercise ball or something. I checked last night and I was running about 38 psi front and rear. I upped that to 50 front/55 rear and this morning and the ride was still smooth but much less bouncy.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.