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Show Us Your 650B Conversions

Old 12-03-21, 07:08 PM
  #901  
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@bikemig, I spread two 120 frames to 130. I think it's OK to do this.

@gugie, your links to Park tools don't work for me.
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Old 12-04-21, 05:26 AM
  #902  
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Originally Posted by amedias View Post
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Is that a Soma Champs Elysees Fork? How do you like it?
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Old 12-04-21, 09:56 AM
  #903  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I've tried the threaded rod technique a couple of times. You can make it work, but I have had an issue at least once with it coming out uneven.
Unless the stays are identical on both sides, one side will bend more than the other. Many bikes have an additional indent on the drive side chainstay to provide chainring clearance, and that makes the stays bend differently.
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Old 12-04-21, 11:51 AM
  #904  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
@gugie, your links to Park tools don't work for me.
Hmm, looks like the Park Tool site is "getting an upgrade".
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Old 12-04-21, 07:46 PM
  #905  
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Originally Posted by DQRider View Post
I know I've shared this elsewhere, but perhaps not here.



I use a Park FFG-2 alignment tool, marked as you see here, to precisely spread and align the rear triangle as I go. Knowing the amount of hysteresis in typical Chrome Moly or 531 rear stay tubing to be around 20%, I stop adjusting the alignment at 130mm and continue spreading to about 165 - 170mm, as Andy_K suggested here. Then, just to make sure, I use the string check to verify correct centering. If that is off at all, I have an old broom handle with a 'C'-shaped notch on one end that I use with a medium sledge hammer to correct the offset. This has always worked for me.*
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I was looking at the Park FFG-2 alignment tool online. $108 for a set - might be worth it if this method allows for some finesse. Using this tool set in combination with string alignment may be something I would try. The current spacing on my Trek 710 is 122mm that I spread to 130mm by hand when installing the rear wheel. It's a bit of a struggle. If I could get the spacing to 126mm + that would make it pretty easy to install the 130mm wheel.

One question. Once the Park Tool FFG-2 tools are tightened into each drop out, do you then spread the drop outs by turning the large cylindrical portions of the tools using channel locks?
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Old 12-05-21, 08:28 AM
  #906  
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Originally Posted by jlaw View Post
Ö

One question. Once the Park Tool FFG-2 tools are tightened into each drop out, do you then spread the drop outs by turning the large cylindrical portions of the tools using channel locks?
The dropouts themselves are too pliable to be used as place from which to spread the frame, at least with this tool which isnít solid all the way across. Thereís the old nut threaded rod method, but youíre better off with the 2x4 strategy, or better yet the Park FFS-2.

The FFG-2 is used to make dropouts parallel after rear end has been re-spaced and aligned. The cylinders are turned by hand, you then manipulate the handles to align the cylinders.

Last edited by fliplap; 12-05-21 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 12-05-21, 10:19 AM
  #907  
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Originally Posted by fliplap View Post
The dropouts themselves are too pliable to be used as place from which to spread the frame, at least with this tool which isn’t solid all the way across. There’s the old nut threaded rod method, but you’re better off with the 2x4 strategy, or better yet the Park FFS-2.

The FFG-2 is used to make dropouts parallel after rear end has been re-spaced and aligned. The cylinders are turned by hand, you then manipulate the handles to align the cylinders.
And, I disagree. This works for me.

I realize this is outside the intended scope for this tool, but it doesn't damage the dropouts or the tool itself. The results speak for themselves - every one of my modified frames is perfectly aligned.

As always, YMMV.
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Old 12-05-21, 04:29 PM
  #908  
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Originally Posted by DQRider View Post
And, I disagree. This works for me.

I realize this is outside the intended scope for this tool, but it doesn't damage the dropouts or the tool itself. The results speak for themselves - every one of my modified frames is perfectly aligned.

As always, YMMV.
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I stand corrected. Sounds like it works. Iíve never liked the idea of levering off of the dropout versus the stay. Not the way Iíd do it, but I also have access to more appropriate tooling.
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Old 12-05-21, 09:23 PM
  #909  
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Originally Posted by fliplap View Post
I stand corrected. Sounds like it works. Iíve never liked the idea of levering off of the dropout versus the stay. Not the way Iíd do it, but I also have access to more appropriate tooling.
Not necessarily "corrected", Mr. flipflap. I totally sympathize with your position on using the right tool for the job. I am an aerospace quality auditor by profession, so I understand this sort of engineering discipline.

But in this particular case, I analyzed the strength of the tool against the resistance of the rear triangle assemblies, identified the differential resistance of the DS stays, and determined that I should use the string alignment method throughout the process. The troglodyte approach of using a sledge hammer and broomstick to sort of equalize the stresses in the assembly was my only real contribution to the existing body of knowledge.

Thank you for taking the time to question my assertions and prompt me to re-examine my methods. I appreciate the respect with which you did this, and would welcome any PM communications in the future.
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Old 12-06-21, 04:36 AM
  #910  
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Originally Posted by mechanicmatt View Post
Is that a Soma Champs Elysees Fork? How do you like it?
Yes it is...

It's an decent fork, quality is very good, finish is good, has appropriate mounts in all the right places etc. The downside is the same as most mass-market forks, in that it's sturdier* than it really needs to be, but for the amount of money it costs compared to a custom fork (with chrome finish) you can't really complain and it's one of the few options available in that offset and with a 1 inch steerer.

* The ride isn't as cushy as some of the nicer forks I own, but it's not so much of an issue with squishy 42mm tyres.
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Old 03-25-22, 01:19 PM
  #911  
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1972 Fuji The Finest

Will do a build thread eventually as it has a story to tell. Test ride today to check out brakes/shifting etc. Ultimately need to decide whether to keep the short stem with the shorter top tube and the narrow bars compared to my normal setup. But nice riding setup so far!


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Old 03-25-22, 07:29 PM
  #912  
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Grand Record 650b conversion

Here is my artistic spin and build circa 1973 Moto Grand Record). @gugie did the frame modifications, braze-ons, and front rack. I built the wheels and bike. Plus, I added the painted lugs, lug lining, and box lining.





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Old 03-26-22, 10:25 AM
  #913  
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Originally Posted by Andy Antipas View Post
Here is my artistic spin and build circa 1973 Moto Grand Record). @gugie did the frame modifications, braze-ons, and front rack. I built the wheels and bike. Plus, I added the painted lugs, lug lining, and box lining.
That is an extremely nice build. Beau! PremiŤre classe!
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Old 03-26-22, 02:36 PM
  #914  
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Originally Posted by DQRider View Post
That is an extremely nice build. Beau! PremiŤre classe!
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Just like everything that Andy builds and rides!
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Old 03-26-22, 03:18 PM
  #915  
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Originally Posted by AJI125 View Post
Will do a build thread eventually as it has a story to tell. Test ride today to check out brakes/shifting etc. Ultimately need to decide whether to keep the short stem with the shorter top tube and the narrow bars compared to my normal setup. But nice riding setup so far!


Those are impeccable fender lines! Nice build too!
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Old 03-26-22, 03:19 PM
  #916  
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Originally Posted by Andy Antipas View Post
Here is my artistic spin and build circa 1973 Moto Grand Record). @gugie did the frame modifications, braze-ons, and front rack. I built the wheels and bike. Plus, I added the painted lugs, lug lining, and box lining.


Wow! Nice fender lines too!
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Old 03-26-22, 03:40 PM
  #917  
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Originally Posted by Andy Antipas View Post

Details on that headlight? Looks cool. Great frame color, too. Love the lines.
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Old 03-26-22, 06:05 PM
  #918  
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Fender Lines

Originally Posted by mountaindave View Post
Wow! Nice fender lines too!
Thank you Dave. I think this is my forth attempt at fender lines? Practice makes perfect, but I gotta say that monsieur gugie modifications made getting reasonable fender lines much easier.
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Old 03-26-22, 06:08 PM
  #919  
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Radios No. 16 headlight

Originally Posted by bear_a_bug View Post
Details on that headlight? Looks cool. Great frame color, too. Love the lines.
The headlight is a French Radios No. 16. I'm not sure when that headlight model first came out, but I'm fairly certain it goes back to at least the 1950s

I have modified it with "guts" from a modern LED headlight, and there is a thread somewhere on Classic & Vintage that shows what I did.
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Old 03-26-22, 06:51 PM
  #920  
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Originally Posted by mountaindave View Post
Those are impeccable fender lines! Nice build too!
Thanks Dave. But youíre mostly just excited itís half step gearing I bet (whether consciously or subconsciously Iím not sure)! 53-49-36 though, what am I thinking with all these hills around here!

VeloLuminoís excellent guide goes a long way for fenders! And the Fender Line thread was a great inspiration. Mostly doing it for the second time and being patient does the trick. Needed the extra front stay with no rack or anything and tried to more or less ratio it positioned the same as gugieís Vintage Peugeot he posted on there. Almost didnít post anything yet with my crashed bar tape from my old bike haphazardly wrapped on there, but still not sure about stem/bars so figured Iíd recycle it for now (and bonus it kinda matches the decals)!
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Old 03-26-22, 07:49 PM
  #921  
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Originally Posted by AJI125 View Post
Thanks Dave. But youíre mostly just excited itís half step gearing I bet (whether consciously or subconsciously Iím not sure)! 53-49-36 though, what am I thinking with all these hills around here!

VeloLuminoís excellent guide goes a long way for fenders!
Ha! It must have been subconscious, but now I see it! You must share the FW sprocket combination!

Anton is good at what he does and his tutorials are impressive. It may be a bit snobbish, but I feel like good fender lines help tie the entire bike together. Iím not an architect or designer, but one can sense when an object is out of proportion, or itís lines out of balance.

Vive la conversion!
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Old 03-26-22, 07:50 PM
  #922  
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Originally Posted by Andy Antipas View Post
Thank you Dave. I think this is my forth attempt at fender lines? Practice makes perfect, but I gotta say that monsieur gugie modifications made getting reasonable fender lines much easier.
I want to be like Gugie when I grow up!
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Old 03-26-22, 09:49 PM
  #923  
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Originally Posted by mountaindave View Post
I want to be like Gugie when I grow up!
Uh, I never grew up.
Don't plan to either.
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Old 03-27-22, 12:34 AM
  #924  
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Yeah, growing up is a trap. Don't do it, kids!!
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Old 03-27-22, 02:14 AM
  #925  
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Could you tell me where I can get fenders like the one pictured on your bike? I have tried searching but must be looking in the wrong places.
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